If you're in an area with a recycling center, go pick up some of the kids toys and electronic games. Almost everything for kids these days has buttons that make things talk, or move, or jump, etc. And being designed for kids they are often clean simple not much bothered by water, slime, drool, etc. I often bring home a 'toy' from the recycle center, or dump, or transfer station. They are a constant supply of gears, motors, LEDs, buzzers, things that talk, mechanical movements. And the upside is the Grandkids are well supplied with 'things' they can play with, that usually work well , and cost nothing. I'm sitting here looking at a couple of rubber coated, thin, membrane switches on an old Hasbro talking dog. I'm sure they were designed with kids in mind, and rough usage!

I've been reading the Netduino and the Arduino forums, and many websites, with a smile on my face. And I've already sold my soul to a couple of the business websites. It makes my wife shiver a bit, bit buying a goody has become almost too easy !

I guess I need to do a little bit of history, so you will know where I am coming from. I'm a retired geek, or as my friends say, retired and a geek. In olden days I was a amateur radio fan, a tinkerer, a packrat, and had a mutitude of fun jobs. In the beginning, I started with a Commodore PET, 6502 assembly, and some enjoyable years not putting my Liberal Arts background to use. I worked for a local manaufacturer, Maintenance, ET, tech, equipment design,etc. Generally if there were two wires attached, and someone had troubles, I got called. Was I any good? Nah, just stubbord and pigheaded. But it was always new everyday. I loved it. My packratting increased. My garage hasn't had many days when it could hold a vehicle !

Back in the late 1970's I 'discovered 'C'. Life was getting better. Then I switched jobs, went to work for Corning in Maine, same type of work, but with a large network and all of 7 computers. Lots of programming, equipment building,amateur radio started to lose my interest. Lots of C code, DbaseII, and a manufacturing floor that was always looking for more and more automation. It was hard not to smile, most days.


Ok, I'll stop this history. Needless to say, I retired about 8 years ago. I have a multitude of hobbies that keep me 'busy'. But, I missed my Visual Studio, a large budget for equipment, and the thrill, to me, of making something move or turn or light up, or ship parts out the door. I have a sympathtic wife, but the equipment and software budget was , and is, pretty small.

Along comes Visual Studio Express, C#, and I was smiling again. Beating a keyboard always seems to be fun, even when I'm beating my head against it trying to figure out a problem. But, the thrill of hardware and software, and something happening just wasn't there. I tried a couple of the small PC boards, and they were interesting, but again, without a budget of any size, sort of a dead end.

Relax, I'll stop the history, Really. Because I picked up an Arduino. And now have a Netduino on the way.But, I can hear the folks saying, why are you babbliing on about all this history stuff. Old guys and their old stories!

Because I keep reading about newbies getting into both the Arduino and the Netduino. And a good many of them are sorta having fun. Hardware and software are intimidating when taken together. And when you've spent good money, and are only worried about will it hurt the parts, or the computer, or if it is 'right', much of the fun is gone. And that has been sticking in my head for a month. It doesn't have to be!

If you've read the topic description, or any of my other posts, you know where this is going. Try picking up parts at the dump, the Transfer Station, trash collection day. I say it, but I've never taken it any further than that. I'm going to try to make my point clearer, and hopefully make the hardware and software more enjoyable. I headed out to the local dump, in my small Maine town. This is not a techie town. Let's see what I can come up with in the coming weeks , and maybe make this more enjoyable for some.
Or not. If no one thinks this makes sense, or is not rational, or not soemthing anyone will do, let me know. After 35 years in IT, I've got thick skin! I have an Arduino, and a Netduino on the way. No fancy equipment, a multimeter.

Thanks for the Welcome Chris and Eric ! And always a welcome excuse to head to the Waterboro Dump, ie the Transfer Station. Like most places these days, they have a Recycling trailer, and a place for electronics. First stop today, the Recycling trailer, but it's been emptied out. Lots of time folks throw some real junk in here because they don't have to pay for it that way. Over to the electronics trailer. This is not really dump picking territory, but the attendants know me, and I can usually peek and poke around. The cardboard container has mostly TV's today. There's a HP scanner in the bottom, but it looks pretty grungy. I leave it. But there is a smallblack case with a display on it, looks like something off a treadmill or exercise bike. Lots of time these are good for parts, and they're low voltage, usually double AAs. I put pictures up to show what this is. Not a great find, buy hey, at least I'm not salting the mine making it look good. Somedays you strike gold, somedays not. http://waterboro.smu...005016059_tLafc Once I get this home, I put in a set of batteries. I always like to know if something is really broken, or good and just thrown away. The display starts up when put in new batteries, the thing changes mode when I press the red button on the front. A wire and connector probably went to a magnetic pickup on a wheel. The display is one that sits on a piece of conductive foam, and I've found them useless. Maybe someone else has found a use ? Bottom line, I end up with a battery holder for 2 AAs, a small crystal which I put in a junk box, and a case. There are a couple of ceramic capacitor on the board, but they are real small and almost no leads on them. I leave them. So, I've taken it apart, killed a couple minutes eyeballing it, googled the company to see if there is a manual available(apparently not), and ended up with a small display case, a battery holder, and screws. Worth the time? I was going to the dump anyway, so I guess yes. If you're a real beginner, just starting in electronics, spend a couple minutes and look stuff like this over. Figure out what the individual parts are. This is not rocket science. There are resistors, capacitors, buttons, cases, displays, ICs, connectors. Many times you can Google something and find out what it is, what it did, and what the parts are inside. The same goes for many IC's, Google the number, often you can still find spec sheets. People always ask, what about tools to do this? First, this stuff is from the dump. Don't spend money or too much time taking it carefully apart. Unless you think it might be workable and you want to use it ! I find that a small screwdriver, regular and especially a Phillips are the biggest help. Removing parts, I have a small soldering station, and solder wick for removing parts. The little digital multmeter I use happens to be one I got from the dump. Replaced the batteries and it works fine. Whatever you use, take a few minutes and learn how to figure out reading resistance. Amd above all, ask questions. Most people don't mind questions. If you are playing around and get smoke, oh well, it came from the dump ! Do be careful. DOn;t just plug stuff in without thinking a bit. I manage a trip to the Waterboro Dump a couple times a week. Who knows what I'll find next week ! That case from this week will hold an Arduino or a Netduino. Someone on here was building in air freshner containers. Now that one I hadn't thought of ! Feel free to ask me questions.

Picking the local dump? I can hear the groans now! But, here's week two, and some more stories from an old fart geek. Some mild confessing is in order. After 'playing' with computers and electronics for 30 years, I do have some minor equipment laying around. But, that is not my reason for writing about picking the local recycle center and the dump. I was reacting to folks talking about how to 'start' with the Netduino or the Arduino, wondering about how to 'learn' about electronics, or software, or hardware. So, I am only using what the bare minimum, plus whatever we find at the dump! If you're reading this, chances are good you have, or are waiting for, a Netduino or Arduino. It's also a good shot that you have a computer with USB and a cable. Now, I'd be the first to admit sitting down making an LED blink is wonderful fun, especially if you have never written code, never made a program actually do something. It probably is going to get old pretty fast. If it doesn't, gosh, you can look forward to many happy days with little expense. Seriously though, what do you do next. after that LED blinking gets old? Just reach into that pile of goodies, and start playing. Oh, no pile of goodies, maybe the pile of cash is a little short? What now? First of all, why are you doing this at all? DO you have an end product in mind? Are you looking at making a large wave in the embedded field with some new invention? Good, because you can find so many people doing so many neat projects just with the Arduino and the newer Netduino, you imagination will not be limited. Do you need a goal? Not from my viewpoint, just 'learning' is fine with me. And the fun part is who cares! You can blow a lot of creative time playing with that one LED, and learn a fair amount of C# in the process. Ok , I'll climb off the soapbox. This week at the dump I ran into a bunch of wall warts, from scanners, radios, power tools, kids toys, and some unknowns. Everyone had a label showing the input and output, plus the wiring for the plug, whether it was positive center or negative center. Yes, I understand you are already powering the Arduino/Netduino with a USB cable and don't need anything else. I think the minute you jump beyond the single LED, start looking at motors, more LEDs, and other stuff, power will be come an issue. If you need to know more about wall warts, I found this link to have a great explanation: http://www.ladyada.n...er/voltage.html You do need to think about getting a multimeter. I have three, one a nice Fluke digital I've had for years, one a cheap Radio Shack Special I found at the dump with dead batteries that works fine, and finally an old timer, analog, that has saved me many times. It's a lot easier, sometimes, watching a needle flip around than trying to follow flickering digital displays. Do I 'need' all three? Nope, I generally grab the cheap one most of the time. I did this morning when I was checking the wall warts I picked up. One, to see what the DC voltage really is, with nothing attached, or unloaded. And again, in AC mode to see how much ripple there is on the output. I see digital multimeters available all the time for $10 - $100 bucks. Ask around before you buy though, since there are dozens hiding in closets and cellars that have not been used in years, and people will give you. Make a quest into finding out what's available, Google multimeters , and kill some time looking. It's still a part of learning ! And finally remember, in the public eye you're 'playing' with electronics and computers. 99.9 percent of the people around you are just going to nod, no matter what you tell them you're doing. So have fun. Coupe weeks ago one of the busybodies in the coffee shop was bugging me about what that thing was I was 'playing with'. It was an Arduino. I told him I was trying to figure out how to make a 15 bit shift register out of an 8 bit computer. He just nodded and left. My friend at the other end of the counter spit coffee all over the place, and cracked up. Ain't this stuff fun, eh !

HAHA! You're the best. I don't like when this happens to me, people are like "Whats that?" Then when I try to explain it. I try to explain Inputs and Outputs then they look at me like I lost my mind.

Well, we have to understand that most of the world just has other things to worry about.

In the older days, when I was interviewing new techs, I'd always give them a 'C' cell battery and two wires, and ask if they could get a spark. A surprising number of them didn't understand, and those people just weren't what I wanted in a manufacturing environment.

I just find it easier to give them something to nod about! Often it's enjoyable to find a way to explain stuff to people. It makes you know your stuff better, and pleases the heck out of the average person when they understand something about 'electronics".

Wise words, thanks for the advice, I'll be sure to have pateince and try my best to explain when asked.

I probably sound too pompous! Many times patience doesn't work, and you just have to resort to the 15 bit shift register type of answer, with a straight face, and get back to whatever you were doing! < grin > I think a sense of humor goes a long way when you're beating a keyboard and hooking up wires.

Just spent an enjoyable hour taking apart a Canon scanner / printer I picked up today. Some one smarter than me needs to look at the parts in one of these newer printers. Nice small PCB with a couple of memory card readers, and only one small connector coming off the board. Some nice rugged motors, lots of gears and eyes. And I noticed the power supply is a modular one, with 24 VDC @700ma and 3.3 at 300ma, nice small detachable plastic package, very light, and the voltages are spot on, no overshoot at all.

I have been trying to find me a broken printer for a while now! No luck so far, maybe I'll convice my parents to take me to the recycling place.

Hehe... at school someone thought that the breadboard and wires plus netduino equaled bomb. They were like "Hey, what the heck is that? Oh my god.. is that a bomb" At that point I didn't know whether to smile and say no, or to flip out... I played the sarcastic "OH YEAH IT IS A HUGE BOMB"

I'd never, even joking, say something is a bomb these days!

Recycling Centers often do not accept electronic stuff. Usually it is in a separate
section, and folks often have to pay to leave stuff. Find the manager and explain what you're doing, simply, don't confuse
him/her. Liability is the biggest fear, thinking you'll get cut or something. My place is usually happy because they know when I take something I'll bring it back, metal in one pile, plastic in another, and a much smaller pile of electronics. That way they reduce their costs, and I get to pick over stuff.

Look for kids toys, Fisher Price stuff. It all seems to have electronics in it, and many have wall warts for power supplies. Course, I've got a couple of Grandsons that are delighted when I fix on of the otys, and then I lose it for a while! Have fun.

Oz-solutions, I am convince these guys do go in every morning and laugh. Laugh about enjoying the day and suppying more creative ideas and products. They are plainly having too much fun ! Having retired from a large corporation, I am green with envy for them.

If it has an internal cable going from serial to a USB-TTL chip, you can simply attach there.

Since it's a high volume product, they may have integrated the USB/serial very tightly (which would be significantly tougher)...not sure.

Either way, sounds like a fun experiment.

Chris

Dsrn, I've got one of those tucked away somewhere I got for free on Freecycle. Now I've got to go find it, and I'll probably miss the upcoming exciting news! LOL

My idea is to make a digital speedometer for a vehicle by tapping into the vehicle speed sensor (VSS) feed from the powertrain control module (PCM) to the instrument cluster. The VSS on the transmission sends a digital signal to the PCM. Most applications vary, but the vehicle I'll be working with has a VSS that sends out 4000 pulses per mile.

Everything since 1993 ? has an ODBII connector, usually under the dash above the driver's right knee. Monitors general Obd-2 data: Fuel system (open/closed loop status), Engine load, Coolant temperature, Manifold Pressure, Engine Rpm, Vehicle speed, Timing advance, Intake air temperature, Intake air flow rate, Throttle position, Secondary air status.

Google OBDII , and you'll find a gaggle of articles and projects about interfacing.

Great idea, thanks to work on it ... Very interested for Netduino Plus ...

Pascal

Put my name on the list !

Sorta quiet at the Transfer Station this week. And I can only pack rat away so many wall warts. I have more than enough. I am looking for the newer ones though, that are real light in weight, and spot on for voltage. They seem to be mainly with the better kids toys, like Fisher Price. If nothing else, I usually cut off the DIN connectors. They come in handy when making adapters for new projects. The electronic container had an older Dell PC , printer, and a flat panel in it. I always check the stickers, and have found in the past the PCs with newer CPUs and OS are sometimes worth powering up to see what is wrong with them. Many times there is nothing wrong, they work fine, and just need a reformat. The flat panel looked pretty clean, and I've seen many of them in the dump, and most were cracked or smashed. I brought this one home, found a power cord, and it works fine ! Now I can get rid of one of the larger monitors. Cost ? Zilch ! My Netduino arrived, finally, this morning, so I can start playing. I am amazed at the number , and diversity, of projects already on the boards, and many done, for such a new product. I've got a couple of small projects in the works, one to replace a large Allen Bradely SLC 100 that runs some lighting in the house and garage. And , of course, the usual temperature sensor . These should be fun ways to get my head wrapped around embedded again!

I've used the Arduino, had some fun times. I was delighted when I saw I could use the breakpoints and Visual Studio Express with the Netduino. But it doesn't seem to be a matter of transitioning FROM the Arduino TO the Netduino. Don't they serve two different markets and two different application pools? Since they are both low end and relatively inexpensive, and certainly BOTH are great for learning electronics AND programming, what are the practical guidelines for each? Speed and memory are different. I see folks talking about using video, or making MP3 players: are these rational targets? I'm not trying to rain on the parade, but I don't think one replaces the other. Where do folks see them going in the near future?

just get the raw MCU and program it like a "real man" hehe.

Oh, that made me laugh ! I've done my duty, 8080, 6502, 6800, 6809, and it took me ages
to 'trust' 'C' code and libraries written by someone else. My Visicalc floppy is hanging on the
wall next to the battery powered paper tape rewinder, and right underneath the Windows 1.0
floppies.

If you need a sweet deal on a stockpile of Tandy Color Computer ICs I can help you there. That was
enough to make a 'real man' out of many people. LOL I keep looking for my ASM disks, and assembly
books, but I just can't seem to find them.

Thanks though for the reply. I'm pretty new to both the Arduino and the Netduino, but that was the
way I was looking at them also. Aduinos around the house and garage, feeding data back to the Netduino, and then
local storage, or net. After 8 years of retirement it's feeling good to beat a keyboard again, and I always
loved the smell of solder.

I am using original 7400 A series a lot. They're probably collector items now, eh ?

Relying on old memories: Using the Netduino with the USB. I have a separate 5VDC 1 amp supply, encapsulated, very solid and used in older TTL days on production equipment. WHy? Because I have a box of them ! A CD4069, output of one gate to a 2N2222A, running a small DC motor. Motor draws 95 ma running, don't know startup draw. Playing with stuff like this, trying out motors, gearing, just playing. It's been a long time ! int x; for (x = 0; x < 10; x++) { led.Write(false); Thread.Sleep(20); led.Write(true); Thread.Sleep(100); } Question: Tie my grounds together? Both from the Netduino board and the separate 5VDC supply? Question: Base resistor for the 2N2222? Not using one, and if I run the motor steady the 4069 gets a little toasty. Runnning the loop from above, and it goes all night not getting warm. For the amusing part, I spent too too long yesterday before I noticed the pinout from the Radio Shack package for the RS 4069 was different than the normal pinout from Google searches. This is a part from 30 years ago. I'm amazed the 4069 took the abuse and grief I subjected it to, before I noticed the pinout difference and changed it.

Nice start ! C# is quick enough to learn, and nothing gets too broken if you make mistakes! But hardware! Another story entirely. Not only can you manage to wreck some parts, but it's not too difficult to damage the Netduino itself. Although I am constantly surprised how much abuse some of the ICs take. THere are starting to be a lot of projects, both new to the Netduino, and taken from the long list of Arduino websites. What is mising, IMHO, is the in between material. Everyone says, careful,don't overload the output pins. But no one is saying how to calculate that, and how to buffer the pins to make it more forgiving when you do make mistakes. A lot of us running the Netduino on the USB port power. How about covering the next step, using another supply, maybe a wall wart, what to look out for, how to use a 2N2222 for a buffer, etc. You don't need to buy an L293 for running a motor, but how do you do it cheaply, and protect the Netduino. The combination of Visual Studio Express, free, and the Netduino is a wonderful combination. But before inventing the next great project, I'll bet some would be happy to spin a motor, cluck a small solenoid, and learn C# while they do it ! It is fun watching the interest grow, and the market get going, isn't it ! Frank - an oldd Geek who just took apart an old ESPN football table, and now has a box filled with various LEDs, resistors, and a handful of motors form a couple of Epson printers. I haven't smoke tested anything yet, but I have come close !

Ok, answering one of my own questions, a little thought and I added a 1k resistor from the 4069 and the base. Was not a problem, except when the gear bound up a bit, and the motor draw and I assume the base emiter current got too high.

Thanks for the answer ! Feels funny to be messing with transistors after many years. I suppose I can throw way all my ceramic tube sockets, eh ?!

Proto-Advantage has been good to deal with, both for the Netduino, the plus, and now waiting on the mini ! Takes me a little over a week to get it from Canada to Maine. Actually looking over their website has cost me a few more bucks in goodies. They have a neat mix.

I found that just typing in the blinking light example, I found out a great deal when Visual Studio offered all the choices for each structure. It's not quite fill in the blanks but pretty close ! Since they're brand new, only released a couple months ago, and shooting for the holiday season, these guys have been answering more questions than I ever thought they would. The Forums are short enough that a quick read through some of the threads brings out a lot of information. Welcome. And I agree, the light gray on white, is hard on the eyes.

WOuld really appreciate you showing the Netduino to Windows Form code !

I have both a Netduino and the plus. Could someone tell me what combinations of the tinyloader and the firmware upgrades work with what ? Will regular Netduino work on the Plus, or the other way around? Having too much fun for an old fart!

Thank you. I should have looked better before asking !

I think I am just looking for head nodding support! The Netduino, regular and plus, seem to want between 7.6 and 12 VDC in order to be free of the USB cable power. I gather that 9VDC is about optimum. I have a handful of LM7805 and LM 7812. Both a little low and at the high end. I have a small box of Acopian 15VDC encapsulated supplies, To high, I know. Why wouldn't I just order a fistful of LM7809s, and feed them with the 15VDC supplies? A tiny pc board, the regulator, a couple small caps, and the Netduinos would be happy ? Just looking to use what I have available. Is there anything obviously wrong in my thinking? Geesh, writing that and my wife walked by, read the screen, and started chuckling.

Well, that would certainly simplfy things a lot !