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The GoBus Upgrade


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#21 Chris Walker

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 06:10 AM

Hi Eric,

Diehard Gadgeteer geek here. So the adapter news finally got me to pull the trigger on a GO. I've got a bunch of gadgeteer modules and have even made a few of my own available over on tinyclr.com. My initial question is this - I'm guessing existing Gadgeteer drivers will have to be ported to Go style to work with this adapter, correct? I would like to get a general sense from Chris or others what you think the development effort will be to make gadgeteer modules behave on a Go. While I wait for the board to arrive, I'll dig into the GO specs to see if I can come up with my own answer, as well.

No changes required. GoBus Virtual I/O and physical I/O work the same. Just grab the module that makes the most sense for you.

Additional options...you can also use the Gadgeteer modules via standard NETMF classes (InputPort, SPI, etc.)...and you can explore Stefan Thoolen's "GadgeteerLight" project as a middle-ground.

Chris

#22 Chris Walker

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 06:15 AM

Hi Ian,

This is great news. As awesome as I think it is, I've been trying to resist Go! simply because I didn't need another bucket to dump my money into with so much already invested in Gadgeteer. It's nice to know this can be eliminated as a concern. I'm curious to hear your answer to ransomhall's question. I don't imagine the Gadgeteer providers are going to be interested in providing Go! drivers. So, I suspect there would still be a community effort involved in porting drivers.

That's one of our goals with the Gadgeteer Adapter. We don't want users to have to throw away their investment. We also don't want users to feel locked into any single component system. Open source is about freedom, and GoBus Virtual I/O gives you the freedom to choose from Arduino Shields, Gadgeteer modules, GoBus modules, and more.

You don't get plug-and-play with Arduino Shields or Gadgeteer modules. But we wanted to make lots of options available.

We did a demo at MakerFaire, with GoBus and Gadgeteer modules interacting in the same project. It was kind of magic.

Congrats!

Thank you :) I'll pass that along to the team.

Chris

#23 Gutworks

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 05:25 PM

Welcome to the Netduino community Eric and Ian! I was excited to see both of your names when I checked the latest posts this morning. I know how active you both are in the .NetMF community and have read many of your posts on the TinyCLR forums. Your ingenuity and dedication are greatly valued and I hope to see many fantastic projects from both of you showcasing the power of .NetMF and the versatility of the Gobus platform using the Gadgeteer modules. The possibilities are endless! I would also, quite selfishly I might add, love to tap into the knowledge and experience you both bring to the community. So please drop by often, and feel free to share your projects here. Cheers, Steve

#24 Stefan

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 05:50 PM

A lot of people have asked how this works. Here's a screenshot. This screenshot is 100% real and made in the designer. The modules are so new that I don't have photos, but I will add in the module photos soon too.

Posted Image
Click for larger image
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My .NETMF projects: .NETMF Toolbox / Gadgeteer Light / Some PCB designs

#25 Chris Walker

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 06:12 PM

A lot of people have asked how this works. Here's a screenshot. This screenshot is 100% real and made in the designer. The modules are so new that I don't have photos, but I will add in the module photos soon too.

That's an awesome screenshot Stefan. You even got an 8-port powered hub in there. :o

BTW for those who don't know...Stefan has been doing most of the work on integrating the Gadgeteer Adapters into the Gadgeteer designer. Stefan--thank you so much, we really appreciate all your contributions to the community.

Chris

#26 Stefan

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 10:56 PM

Stefan--thank you so much, we really appreciate all your contributions to the community.

No problem. By the way, I also have some nice photos to share. Click for a full view B)

Posted Image

Posted Image
"Fact that I'm a moderator doesn't make me an expert in things." Stefan, the eternal newb!
My .NETMF projects: .NETMF Toolbox / Gadgeteer Light / Some PCB designs

#27 neslekkim

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 10:31 AM

Damn, what do one need to do, to get one of those adapters?

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#28 Chris Walker

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 03:03 PM

Hi neslekkim,

Damn, what do one need to do, to get one of those adapters?

:)

They'll be available by the end of November through authorized Netduino resellers.

We gave out a bunch of them early at MakerFaire NY, but the official beta starts next month.

These use GoBus SPI transport. The Shield Base firmware will be getting the same upgrade.

Chris

#29 neslekkim

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 05:22 PM

cool, good to know for some hoarding planning.. :)

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#30 supra

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 10:20 AM

Hi neslekkim,


:)

They'll be available by the end of November through authorized Netduino resellers.

Chris


Does its available on Radio Shack?

#31 supra

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 10:22 AM

@stefan

Can it do daisy chain?Posted Image

#32 Stefan

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 11:50 AM

@stefan

Can it do daisy chain?Posted Image

daisy chain? How do you mean that? If you're referring to the Gadgeteer DaisyLink Protocol, I haven't tested it yet, but I wouldn't know why it wouldn't work. My answer is no final answer though, it still needs testing and I'm not working for Secret Labs, just a friend of Chris helping out on some things, so I can't promise you any feature :)
"Fact that I'm a moderator doesn't make me an expert in things." Stefan, the eternal newb!
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#33 supra

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 12:01 PM

@stefan

I meant Gadgeteer Adapters to Gadgeteer Adapters it is like daisy chain



#34 Stefan

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 12:07 PM

I meant Gadgeteer Adapters to Gadgeteer Adapters it is like daisy chain

In that case I can say: no, that won't be possible.

The Gadgeteer Adapter module has 5 sockets:
1 blue Netduino Go! socket that must go to the mainboard
1 black Gadgeteer AIKUX socket to go to a Gadgeteer module
1 black Gadgeteer AIX socket to go to a Gadgeteer module
1 black Gadgeteer OPSY socket to go to a Gadgeteer module
1 black Gadgeteer KPUY socket to go to a Gadgeteer module

You can't plug in a Netduino Go! module into a gadgeteer socket. So Daisychaining won't be possible.
However, in the future hubs will become available. I believe the limit would be 255 Netduino Go! modules to 1 Netduino Go! mainboard.
"Fact that I'm a moderator doesn't make me an expert in things." Stefan, the eternal newb!
My .NETMF projects: .NETMF Toolbox / Gadgeteer Light / Some PCB designs

#35 neslekkim

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 12:36 PM

Why isn't all Gadgeteer types supported?, is there any dificulties in that?, or what mcu is placed on the adapter card?

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Asbjrn


#36 Stefan

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 01:16 PM

Why isn't all Gadgeteer types supported?, is there any dificulties in that?, or what mcu is placed on the adapter card?

So, in total are the following socket types supported: AIKOPSUXY
That means that this list is not supported:

D USB device
R+G+B Display (LCD) interface
T Four-wire touch screen interface
C Controller-area network (CAN-bus)
H USB host interface
E Ethernet PHY connection
F SD/MMC

For D, the Netduino Go! mainboard already has this onboard. With most Gadgeteer mainboards, to debug and upload your code you need a D-module. for Netduino Go! this is no requirement at all.

About R+G+B and T, there is already a pretty cool touch display module available from Nwazet. Also, I kinda don't like that 3 or 4 sockets are in use for a single module.

I believe a stm32 is used, but I'm not sure which one in specific. I can check it out later today.
"Fact that I'm a moderator doesn't make me an expert in things." Stefan, the eternal newb!
My .NETMF projects: .NETMF Toolbox / Gadgeteer Light / Some PCB designs

#37 Chris Walker

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 04:16 PM

Hi supra,

I meant Gadgeteer Adapters to Gadgeteer Adapters it is like daisy chain

Gadgeteer's DaisyLink system is basically an extended version of I2C where a mainboard can read/write registers on each module in a chain.

GoBus gives you the power to add lots of Gadgeteer Adapters to your project (either directly connected to your mainboard or via GoBus hubs).

Gadgeteer Adapters are GoBus I/O expansion devices. They are plugged into GoBus ports, not Gadgeteer sockets. You can plug in lots of them into GoBus hubs though.

And you can plug several Gadgeteer DaisyLink modules into each Gadgeteer Adapter.

Chris

#38 Chris Walker

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 04:35 PM

Hi neslekkim,

Why isn't all Gadgeteer types supported?, is there any dificulties in that?, or what mcu is placed on the adapter card?

To set expectations up front, no Gadgeteer mainboard or adapter works with all Gadgeteer modules.

We could definitely support additional Gadgeteer socket types via GoBus--but the trade-off would be cost and user complexity and the loss of open source.

We've chosen to support the most popular Gadgeteer socket types, to offer broad Gadgeteer compatibility at a low cost.

We'll put together a document explaining how Gadgeteer works and how to determine if a Gadgeteer module will work with a specific Gadgeteer mainboard. The main thing to watch out for are manufacturer-proprietary modules (some are marked as "Z", most others are marked as "S").

We took great care to design the Gadgeteer Adapter to follow the original Gadgeteer spec from MSR as much as possible--so that users have the best Gadgeteer experience with Netduino Go hardware. For instance there are no de-rated Gadgeteer sockets on the Gadgeteer Adapter. In most cases it should "just work."

Chris

P.S. The microcontroller on the Gadgeteer Adapter is an ST Cortex M0 chip with 64KB of flash and 8KB of RAM. It currently runs at 35MHz.

#39 supra

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 04:58 PM

Hi supra,


Gadgeteer's DaisyLink system is basically an extended version of I2C where a mainboard can read/write registers on each module in a chain.

GoBus gives you the power to add lots of Gadgeteer Adapters to your project (either directly connected to your mainboard or via GoBus hubs).

Gadgeteer Adapters are GoBus I/O expansion devices. They are plugged into GoBus ports, not Gadgeteer sockets. You can plug in lots of them into GoBus hubs though.

And you can plug several Gadgeteer DaisyLink modules into each Gadgeteer Adapter.

Chris


Thank! Posted Image

#40 neslekkim

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 06:11 PM

To set expectations up front, no Gadgeteer mainboard or adapter works with all Gadgeteer modules.

We could definitely support additional Gadgeteer socket types via GoBus--but the trade-off would be cost and user complexity and the loss of open source.


Yes, I have seen that the mainboards is like that, I don't like it very much, it's difficult to know which board to use for what, so I like the GoBus better for beeing more versatile sort of. But I thought it mostly came down to what the cpu offered, and what one does in software on that cpu, but yes, cost would proably prohibit it.
But what do you mean with loss of open source?, are some of the letters for close things? (I haven't fully gotten into it, I only noted that E was missing.. )

Maybe it exists some information about which ports are used most among the gadgeteer modules, so one doesnt need more than the most used one, I have no clue about that, just looking around, and owning no gadgeteer modules today, but I have seen ghi have an extensive list of modules, many that I would wish for, and of course many that I think is not very usable (like an module with only one 8x8 matrix, that would be extremely expensive if one would like to drive more than one matrix.. )

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Asbjrn





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