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Netduino Go Ethernet


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#1 Westies

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 11:02 PM

Hello!!! I just got my Go delivered today. I was going to buy the Plus because of the Ethernet but then watched a YouTube video (getting started with netduino) which made me rush ahead and get the Go - I didn't realise it didn't have Ethernet :-(. I really want to explore MQTT with a device. I've read there will be a module available at some point. I'm in the UK - any idea when it might be available? I'm vey impressed so far with the community around the netduino. I'll have more questions but will hopefully provide some input too.

#2 Chris Walker

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 04:21 AM

Hi Westies, We're working on the Ethernet modules, and a firmware update to go with them. I don't have a date to share quite yet, but we'll post here as soon as it's ready for order. Welcome to the Netduino community, Chris

#3 indimini

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 02:21 AM

Chris,

On July 12, you wrote "Once we receive the Ethernet module samples, we'll run a few days of tests. Assuming those pass (which they almost always do), it'll take about a month to manufacture, test, and ship the modules to resellers. So not too long..."


Sept 27th you wrote "We have a few last items to check off before we put these on the production line, but at this point it looks like we're good to go. I can't wait to get these out to everyone"


Dec 4th you wrote "We're working on the Ethernet modules and firmware update..." which doesn't sound close to what was promised nearly five months ago.


As somebody who bought into the Netduino Go's vision based on what was posted by your company on this forum, I honestly feel like I've been mislead and bought into a technology that isn't ready for my needs. (I'm also waiting for a one-wire library and a shield base that doesn't require four sockets to use.) I don't mean to be an *ss, but honestly, lots of promises have been made to your customers that aren't being fulfilled. When can we expect real dates for these products/features?

#4 Nicky

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 09:47 AM

As somebody who bought into the Netduino Go's vision based on what was posted by your company on this forum, I honestly feel like I've been mislead and bought into a technology that isn't ready for my needs. (I'm also waiting for a one-wire library and a shield base that doesn't require four sockets to use.) I don't mean to be an *ss, but honestly, lots of promises have been made to your customers that aren't being fulfilled. When can we expect real dates for these products/features?


I must agree. I've been working on my finals the last few months, based on Netduino Go because there would be a module ready.

Instead of working on the project it self, I've spent countless hours getting Ethernet running on the Go... both with and without mIP.

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#5 neslekkim

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 02:13 PM

The trackrecord for the Ethernet module (and the SD card module btw) is much worse than that: Posted 26 May 2012 - 12:34 AM Speaking of which, we'll be doing final spec checks on the Ethernet module next week and then it'll go off for production as well. Posted 02 July 2012 - 04:07 PM We're doing some final tweaks in regards to power and impedence on the Ethernet module... I will have an update this week for sure. Posted 10 July 2012 - 05:44 PM All of our software validation tests passed on the SD Card modules (subset of the Ethernet module firmware). And all of our design validation tests have passed for the Ethernet module. Posted 12 July 2012 - 10:20 PM Once we receive the Ethernet module samples, we'll run a few days of tests. Assuming those pass (which they almost always do), it'll take about a month to manufacture, test, and ship the modules to resellers. So not too long... Posted 27 July 2012 - 01:12 AM Oh, look what just landed on my desk It will take about 10 days to do full validation testing on these. Then we'll either do a quick respin or we'll send them straight to volume manufacturing. Posted 18 August 2012 - 01:28 AM We should be done validating the Ethernet module in the next week or so. Once it passes all of our validation tests, we should be sending it off for manufacturing. Posted 25 August 2012 - 01:39 AM Ethernet module -- validating samples, should be going into production soon, 4 weeks for production Posted 27 September 2012 - 09:15 PM We finished validation on most of the circuitry on our Ethernet module samples today. Posted 29 September 2012 - 06:37 AM For the Ethernet modules: we discovered two errata in relation to the ENC28J60 chip and the revised design should be going into production this month (October). I'll post an update on that soon... Posted 09 October 2012 - 08:15 PM we'll be shipping the Ethernet module for Netduino Go soon. Posted 28 October 2012 - 07:10 PM I will have an update on the Ethernet module for you on 5-Nov-2012. Thank you for your patience and enthusiasm; I'm really excited about how the new Ethernet hardware is turning out and I appreciate you coming along on this journey with us. Posted 03 November 2012 - 08:51 PM Quick update: update will be on 8-Nov-2012. Sorry for the extra delay; power has been out here for the last week due to Sandy. and the latest from the thread about the module, where update was promised 8.nov: Posted 20 November 2012 - 03:21 AM Not quite yet. Thank you for your anticipation. I'm definately not wasting my time on this anymore, after promised production around 28.may, and nothing happens, but one manage to squeze out an Netduino Plus 2 with the features that the Go lacks, one can wonder what the state of Go is. I could probably buy an NP2 instead to have some progress, but don't think I will lock in more in this. The sad part is that since one is telling that it's coming soon, everytime someone ask, then others that could probably have done this for long ago, is not going to invest time and resources in it. Just look at everything Nwazet managed to cramp into its Daq module, and it even have SD card functionality?, and the official one is nowhere to be seen? Sorry to be ranting here, but..

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#6 Chris Walker

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 04:50 PM

The Ethernet module is behind schedule. We conducted most of the Ethernet module testing alongside Netduino Plus 2, as the two share the same circuitry. We are now wrapping up a few final items which are unique to the Ethernet module, and are aggregating those with the firmware for a few other accessories. It would have been a lot faster to just create a GoBus 1.0 pass-through for the Ethernet module, instead of launching it on the new architecture. In retrospect that's what we should have done, as it's the most sophisticated module of the bunch. I will post an update as soon as I have more news on the Ethernet modules. They're very close, but I don't want to set expectations with a date and then not meet those expectations. Thank you very much for your patience. Chris

#7 Valkyrie-MT

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 10:25 PM

...I've spent countless hours getting Ethernet running on the Go... both with and without mIP.


Ah, you've tried mIP? Have you tried the newly released Beta? Do you have any feedback?

-Valkyrie-MT

#8 baxter

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 08:03 AM

@Valkyrie-MT Yes, I have on the Mini ... See Post #5, http://forums.netdui...88-mip-on-mini/ It works like a charm. Baxter

#9 Nicky

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 08:48 AM

Ah, you've tried mIP? Have you tried the newly released Beta? Do you have any feedback?

-Valkyrie-MT


Yeah, it's quite impressive, but I've had problems accessing server on our local network. ARP works fine, TCP sends SYN, but never receives SYN/ACK - my development machine sends SYN/ACK 3 times before sending the RST.

I also can't figure out if the driver included in the download is under GNU license or Apache?

Anyways, I would love to see a more framework like version of the library. Why? To make it easier to reuse the code, on multiple devices.

I'm currently using a modified System.Net library, to have Networking on the Go using a Netduino Plus (not the version on codeplex in my signature, thats an old, bad, implementation) - it should be possible to implement mIP this way. I just don't have the time right now. Have to hand in my exam in 7 days. Are you, or the community interrested in the this, I could continue working on it during the holidays/beginning of january.

ntools
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http://ntools.codeplex.com/


#10 Valkyrie-MT

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 07:12 PM

It works like a charm.

Super!

Yeah, it's quite impressive, but I've had problems accessing server on our local network. ARP works fine, TCP sends SYN, but never receives SYN/ACK - my development machine sends SYN/ACK 3 times before sending the RST.

I would be happy to look at the Wireshark file to see if I can figure out what's going wrong.

I also can't figure out if the driver included in the download is under GNU license or Apache?

Great question. It's Apache 2.0. I started with a driver ported from C written by hanzibal in C# which was GNU (with permission). Then I tried to get permission from the authors myself to go Apache. I got no response, but I soon found out that the C version was actually based on the Microchip sample code with little modification. So I wrote my own driver based on that and not based on any GNU code and licensed that as Apache 2.0. That is the driver used in the Beta of mip and the original GNU driver is no longer included. So everything is Apache. This allows it to be used commercially.

I'm currently using a modified System.Net library, to have Networking on the Go using a Netduino Plus (not the version on codeplex in my signature, thats an old, bad, implementation) - it should be possible to implement mIP this way.

So, you are thinking of wrapping mIP with a new class that implements System.Net methods and classes? Definitely possible. And I think a lot of people would appreciate that. But, one of my goals is to simplify networking and save some overhead by not implementing all the typical layers. Although with the new ST chips, it's really becoming less of an issue because of all the extra memory. But, still, mIP can run out of memory under heavy traffic.

-Valkyrie-MT

#11 baxter

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 07:30 PM

Have you given any thought to modifying mIP to work with a WIZnet w5100 or W5200? I just bought a WIZ820io with a W5200. It seems like it might be easier to interface than the ENC28J60. Baxter

#12 Valkyrie-MT

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 11:06 PM

Have you given any thought to modifying mIP to work with a WIZnet w5100 or W5200? I just bought a WIZ820io with a W5200.
It seems like it might be easier to interface than the ENC28J60.


I have thought about the W5200. I has an integrated TCP/IP stack, so you really don't need a software TCP/IP stack. I think you are absolutely right that it would have been easier to code for, but it would likely be less flexible. But, with support for 8 simultaneous sockets, it's probably good for embedded class devices.

-Valkyrie-MT

#13 DaveRVW

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 06:18 AM

I have thought about the W5200. I has an integrated TCP/IP stack, so you really don't need a software TCP/IP stack. I think you are absolutely right that it would have been easier to code for, but it would likely be less flexible. But, with support for 8 simultaneous sockets, it's probably good for embedded class devices.

-Valkyrie-MT


Both the W5100 and W5200 have a MAC-Raw (MACRAW) mode that can be used from socket 0. It should be possible to ignore the WizNET TCP/IP stack, and port the managed stack from ENC28J60 to these chipsets as well. The possible advantage is bypassing the WizNET 4 or 8 simultaneous sockets restrictions, and building a driver that could support multiple Ethernet chipsets to support the majority of Arduino Ethernet shields. There may be performance issues, but the variety of compatibility would be very interesting.

#14 Nicky

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 02:52 PM

I would be happy to look at the Wireshark file to see if I can figure out what's going wrong.


That would be great. Althrough I really don't have time to work with this anymore the 7 days. Have to focus on the other stuff, but after Dec. 21st could be cool. I don't know what Wireshark is through? Guessing that it's some network monitoring. I've used a tool from Microsoft, but can't tell if Wireshark is better :)

Great question. It's Apache 2.0. I started with a driver ported from C written by hanzibal in C# which was GNU (with permission). Then I tried to get permission from the authors myself to go Apache. I got no response, but I soon found out that the C version was actually based on the Microchip sample code with little modification. So I wrote my own driver based on that and not based on any GNU code and licensed that as Apache 2.0. That is the driver used in the Beta of mip and the original GNU driver is no longer included. So everything is Apache. This allows it to be used commercially.


Yeah, that was kind a like I understood it. I've tried making my own driver based on the datasheet, and got some functions working, but discarded it, when I saw your version was the only one included in the download. Eventhrough the problem i had on local network, I still think it's a impressive library. I know most of it's is just protocols, but the amount of time spendt on this ain't small.

So, you are thinking of wrapping mIP with a new class that implements System.Net methods and classes? Definitely possible. And I think a lot of people would appreciate that. But, one of my goals is to simplify networking and save some overhead by not implementing all the typical layers. Although with the new ST chips, it's really becoming less of an issue because of all the extra memory. But, still, mIP can run out of memory under heavy traffic.


Yes, something like that. But instead of making a new class that implements System.Net, I was thinking about modifying the System.Net namespace to use mIP instead of the NativeSocket. Althrough the assembly has to be named something else, or it would require a custom firmware, it can still expose the System.Net classes.

Regarding the memory, maybe that could be handled by dropping/rejecting packets in a sophisticated way. I don't know if the receivefilters could be changed during operations, but then the ENC28 could check the port on TCP packets before passing it through. So if a HTTP server is listening on port 80, then all other packets are dropped (unless they are in the in the ephmeral range (or what ever it's called)).

Anyways, that was just a quick thought, I'm not completely into all aspects of the library, or the ENC28 capabilities.

ntools
TCP Listener (Beta) · FTP Server (Alpha)
Netduino Plus Go Module · Xml Parser
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#15 Westies

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Posted 23 December 2012 - 09:38 PM

Still no word? :-( I've decided to get the Arduino and dust off my C skills. It has Ethernet, etc. (and readily available in the UK) and I really want to get started while I've got the buzz!! I'll keep checking back for a ship date for the Go Ethernet, though!! Cheers, Andy

#16 Arron Chapman

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Posted 23 December 2012 - 10:04 PM

Still no word? :-(

I've decided to get the Arduino and dust off my C skills. It has Ethernet, etc. (and readily available in the UK) and I really want to get started while I've got the buzz!! I'll keep checking back for a ship date for the Go Ethernet, though!!

Cheers,
Andy


You are welcome to pick up a Netduino Plus or Netduino Plus Two, and start using Ethernet with C# today.

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#17 Westies

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Posted 23 December 2012 - 11:46 PM

You are welcome to pick up a Netduino Plus or Netduino Plus Two, and start using Ethernet with C# today.


Yes I thought of that but I've spent £90 already and don't want to spend anymore on Netduino as once the Ethernet is available I'd basically have two of the same thing.

#18 Arron Chapman

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Posted 24 December 2012 - 01:03 AM

Yes I thought of that but I've spent £90 already and don't want to spend anymore on Netduino as once the Ethernet is available I'd basically have two of the same thing.


Not quite, the Go isn't intended for and isn't the best at (at the moment at least) plugging in any arbitrary hardware. Where as the Arduino form factor boards are perfect for it.io

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#19 Westies

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Posted 24 December 2012 - 07:37 PM

Not quite, the Go isn't intended for and isn't the best at (at the moment at least) plugging in any arbitrary hardware. Where as the Arduino form factor boards are perfect for it.io

Ah ok. Do you mean netduino (plus) 2 use the Arduino form factor and Arduino components are compatible with it? I'm very new to this so sorry if this sounds obvious.

#20 Arron Chapman

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 01:04 AM

Ah ok. Do you mean netduino (plus) 2 use the Arduino form factor and Arduino components are compatible with it? I'm very new to this so sorry if this sounds obvious.

Indeed, the Netduino, Netduino Plus and the Netduino Plus Two all use the Arduino form factor with the Netduino Plus Two using the latest Rev C layout.  Most shields and arbitrary hardware will work with the Netduinos.


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