
Powerful Aquarium Lighting
#21
Posted 24 January 2012 - 06:10 AM
#22
Posted 24 January 2012 - 06:30 AM
#23
Posted 24 January 2012 - 02:25 PM


#24
Posted 25 January 2012 - 12:11 AM
Attached Files
Edited by Magpie, 25 January 2012 - 08:37 PM.
#25
Posted 25 January 2012 - 07:50 AM
Attached Files
Edited by Magpie, 25 January 2012 - 08:35 PM.
#26
Posted 25 January 2012 - 12:48 PM
I definitely agree with Magpie on just one thing: don't desolder the TLC!
About the Magpie idea, I'm still a bit suspicious, 'cos I don't understand where the advantage is.
The goal should be to simplify the led driving, possibly without paying too much.
Believe me: this thread is really intriguing, but I haven't so much time to follow enough.
The small boards with a tiny MCU is still the best one in my mind, although to program them you must use a special programmer (JTAG). That's obviously an overkill, unless you'll find some new project where re-use it.
I'd have a "breaking-change" about the JTAG problem, but it's still no more than an idea...
Instead of creating many small boards (which should require a PCB or else), we might consider several Arduino-like boards:
- a single board can manage 4-6 leds independently
- much compact than many small boards
- ready-to-use (the Arduinos are easy to buy anywhere)
- it's easy to program, via RS232 or via USB
- it offers many I/Os than an ATTiny
Please, let me know whether I'm going off.
Cheers
#27
Posted 25 January 2012 - 07:46 PM
#28
Posted 25 January 2012 - 09:45 PM
From what I can see the TLC5940s are a standalone solution. They don't need extra current limiting or any extra circuitry but they do have heat dissipation and power wastage problems. I think they are designed with lower power applications in mind.
I think for your aquarium, where you want higher power that you would need to use a lot of these.
The other way of doing things is through a led driver which is normally based on a buck converter.
With a proper converter you don't waste as much power and therefore don't run into heat problems.
At a guess I think my converter is around 90% efficient, as are most other modern led drivers that use a decent inductor and a decent mosfet.
Maybe you could to a compromise solution, where your low power channels could run off TLC5940s and your high power ones run off buck based led drivers.
Rather than make them all yourself you could buy these.recom led driver
As far as the leds go I have used the Cree XPE for colours and XPG for white. The leds that mcinnes01 linked to dont give many details, what worries me is that a cheap 10 watt led might produce as much light as a Cree 5 watt led, but it will also produce 5 more watts of heat.
The Cree leds are very efficient. I think if you use high quality leds and drivers you wouldn't need much heatsinking at all.
Obviously the only problem with high quality is the expense, but you have to factor in the energy cost as well.
#29
Posted 26 January 2012 - 05:27 PM
I will be using the cree 3 watts for my whites, not decided what colour bin yet. any suggestions?
Also been looking at the maxim packages for driving the leds. There seem a lot of choices and they have everything more or less in the package.
Some examples are here
Let me know your thoughts?
The recom's seem pretty picey for the number of channels would ideally like but a good package for someone who wants to cluster leds.
Cheers,
Andy
#30
Posted 26 January 2012 - 09:04 PM
#31
Posted 27 January 2012 - 08:42 PM
I have found these crees for my whites, what do you think? cree
Obviously I need 14 of these.
If I went with these LEDs aiming for the 3w output, where would you suggest to begin in terms of driver?
I wonder for efficiency but to still allow me to individually control the LEDs if there is a simple but clever way around this?

Let me explain...
As everyone knows, reducing the voltage down to 4v is better for driving individual LEDs like I proposed to do, it wastes less energy than using resistors, but is ultimately still inefficient as the power supply will be more inefficient.
As you suggested 8 LEDs on a 24v supply is a lot more efficent, however this would require me having 8 in a string and hence the trade off is less control for better efficiency. Or is it????
Typically the lights are going to be on at a PWM controlled level, whatever that may be. If all lights were to be at the same level by design, then this would be fine, but as you know I plan on producing effects such as lightening, cloud cover, moon cycles, seasons and sun rise/ sunset.
Despite these effects there will for the majority of the time just be a consistent level of light and only at certain times would lights need individual control. What I am proposing is having 2 seperate drivers for the LEDs, one is a super efficient long string driver e.g. 24v 8 in a chain. Then the other driver will be to control individual LEDs for the effects. Now obviously this will have a higher component cost, but it gives me the flexibility of efficiency and control when required.
A slight deviation on this idea (this may be total rediculous btw but I'm just brain storming as fast as I can as I want to buy everything and get it built), the other idea is have all the LEDs run in the 8 LED chains, but then inbetween the LED and the actual power cables have something that I can control the current to that specific LED either by creating more resistance or using a capacitor and transistor as a switch that is controlled by PWM to reduce the charge supplied to the capacitor at a particular time. The capacitor would obviously level the switching out to a smooth consistent level. Now as you know my specific knowledge of electronics is still rather infant, but I think my understanding is correct, please correct me if not?
Also not sure if I dimmed one LED in this way by interrupting the flow of current to one LED, what the effect would be on the other LEDs in the 8 LED chain?
Many thanks,
Andy
#32
Posted 28 January 2012 - 04:01 AM
#33
Posted 29 January 2012 - 03:17 AM
Next, I did have a go with the Spice program and could see the various waveforms, but I will be honest at this point it gets a little beyond me. While I can see what the ciruit is producing I don't really know how to interpret it or modify i to get my desired output.
This is the spec of the SP-Es
Cool White
CCT (K) 10,000 – 5,000Max Current (mA) 1000
Viewing Angle (°) 115
XP-E Standard Min. Flux @ 350 mA 122 lm 114 lm 107 lm 100 lm
XP-E HEW Standard Min. Flux @ 350 mA 139 lm 130 lm 122 lm
Product Status Active
I definately think a home brew buck driver is going to be the correct route for me, just based on a level of control and price factor.
How would I handle the open drain exactly from the TLCs so that it can provide a useful output to a buck driver? If for this example we say the buck driver is the suggested ATTINY solution.
I definately am going to do some testing before making a decision, but just need to know exactly what componets I would need to create a test buck driver and what components are needed exactly to turn the TLCs output in to something useful?
Many thanks again,
Andy
#34
Posted 29 January 2012 - 08:44 AM
The XPEs will be fine.
When you say the open drain, I think it is an open collector according to the data sheet page 8.
Doesn't matter. It's as far as I know an open collector current sink that has a variable PWM output.
What is needed is to turn the current sink output into a reasonable stable analogue voltage.
What about a pullup resistor and a low pass filter?
Vcc ----- pullup resistor ----- TLC out | |----- Cap ----- GND. | |----- Attiny input.
This would work though the code may need tweaking just to take more samples to smooth the input even more, without causing much too delay.
As you saw I put my whole attiny circuit upside down, I cant remember why. It might have been to put current sense on the high side or to use an n channel mosfet. I'll have a look and send a schematic through.
In the mean time so I dont hold you up.
BOM To make the 3 channel pwm.
1 x attiny 461a
1 x 12 or 24 volt psu. (choose current mainly for the leds, the attiny only takes about 20ma I think.
1 x 5 volt regulator ( for the attiny whatever it needs) 7905 if you want to go upside down.
1-3 x 10k fader (for testing.)
3 x 100uH inductor or there abouts.
3 x Fet 40-70 volts, low rds, n type enhancement. IRF1010e
3 x 5819 shottky diodes
3 x 0.5 ohm resistors
3 x 470 ohm resistors
3 x 180 ohm resistors
3 x 9 ohm resistors (attiny pwm out ?? into base)
6 x bc327
3 x bc337
3 x 10uF tantalum 35v caps
1 x 100uF or so 35v or greater electrolytic cap
Of course add your Wago plugs.
The inductors are cannibalised from old switch modes. But should be easy to get. I haven't actually measured there inductance but bigger is better.
The fets have lots of alternatives. Make sure N channel enhancement, VDS > 40 v , Rds is low and Vgs(threshold) is similar. We are driving the gate with 12v so it needs to be fully switched on before 12v.
I will send the photos of the build through soon. Be warned, it's no masterpiece. (Like most of my stuff.)
#35
Posted 29 January 2012 - 09:21 AM
On the bom also are some 500ma fuses for your 1 amp leds.
fuse holders
I hope it doesn't put you off.
I was looking at the TLC5940s again they actually can run efficiently if the outputs are close to 0 volts at full current. But every channel has to be the same. By matching your led strings to the max current you set for it and the input voltage, this could be achieved.
The only trouble then is the em noise they must produce, as Mario pointed out ages ago. But I really need to quote Mario for the full impact.
Nor the Holy God won't release you any emission certificate, unless the entire circuit (from mains to leds) will be enclosed in a good metallic shield/box. Consider seriously this topic, 'cos you may have issues on TV, radio-remotes, etc.
Jon
Attached Files
#36
Posted 29 January 2012 - 12:28 PM
#37
Posted 30 January 2012 - 02:11 AM
#38
Posted 31 January 2012 - 01:00 PM
I tried moving the discrete driver around to make the voltage conventional, but failed. So everything needs to be referenced to your maximum voltage rather than ground.
The N channel fet wasn't turning off 100% in the model, so I left it how it was.
My diagram shows Vcc at pin 20 and gnd and pin 10 for both chips. This needs to be corrected to their actual pins.
The inductor L1 can either be a lossy inductor with thin wire, or a resistor, or a resistor + an inductor. With the cap it will make a low pass filter. I was thinking of one of those inductors that look like resistors. The 3db point should be very low, say 10-50 hz.
R1 should enable a voltage swing of near 5 volts, but it will depend on how you set your sink current.
To start I would get the Attiny dimmer going by itself first. At the same time get the 5940s talking to the netduino and driving leds.
When you are happy with the separate parts working you could merge them.
Good luck.
New version of schematic, with thanks to Nevyn.
Edited by Magpie, 01 February 2012 - 02:26 AM.
#39
Posted 31 January 2012 - 01:11 PM
If you power the 5940 with 5V (which is within spec) then you will probably need a logic level shifter for the SPI. The 3.3V may not register as a logic 1 as (if memory serves) the minimum is 0.8 * Vcc for a high signal.Attached is a circuit for connecting the TLC5940s, I am assuming they are ok with 5 volts as Vcc.
regards,
Mark
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#40
Posted 01 February 2012 - 02:35 AM
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