11 replies to this topic

[TotalMonkey]

A couple quick questions: how does the Netduino differ from, let's say, the Arduino Duemilanove? Do the .NET Micro Framework and Netduino SDKs only work with the Netduino?

Thanks!

[Izzmo]

I'm a newb here and don't actually own the netduino (YET!), but from the videos, it looks like a lot of the shields you can buy for the Arduino work for the Netduino, as demonstrated with the colorimeter video.

I think the main difference is the development for each. Arduino uses it's own open-source code (similar to C#) while the netduino actually uses C# and the .NET framework. I think the main selling point for them is people who are software people and have a job and code in C# daily will be able to pick and use the netduino with a fairly small learning curve.

But again, this is just my observations.

[Chris Walker]

A couple quick questions: how does the Netduino differ from, let's say, the Arduino Duemilanove? Do the .NET Micro Framework and Netduino SDKs only work with the Netduino?

To add to what Izzmo said... The Netduino uses the standard .NET Micro Framework SDK. If you outgrow the Netduino, there are a number of high-end boards (200MHz! 8MB!) that you can get for a few hundred dollars. Some even have integrated networking and touchscreens. Any standard .NET Micro Framework code should move between boards by simply re-deploying the application to another board. Plus, our design files are Creative Commons licensed--so you can remix them into your own custom board if you'd like. Lots of our commercial customers will do this in high-volume applications.

That said, most microcontroller projects will work nicely on the Netduino.

The Netduino SDK includes added functionality (AnalogInput, PWM) which is Netduino-specific. But it's open-source, so if you wanted to use your code on another platform you could port the behind-the-scenes C code for that to another processor as well.

Now, for a comparison between the Arduino and the Netduino... Arduino is actually a pretty cool board, and the guys who run the project are pretty swell guys. Here are a few points of differentiation:

1. Arduino uses a simplified version of C, so it's pretty low-level. If you're making a really fast-moving blinking lights application using the GPIO pins directly, Aduino is probably a better choice. Netduino uses managed code--which does lots of awesome things for you (and many of them very efficiently)--but there's some additional overhead there.
2. Netduino is 48MHz, 32-bit, has 128KB of Flash (up to 200KB if you remove FileSystem support and such), 60KB of RAM, etc. Arduino is 16MHz, 8-bit, has 32KB of Flash, and a few KB of RAM. They have higher-end versions available with more Flash.
3. Both platforms can be used for simple projects in a pretty straightforward fashion. But as you create larger, more sophisticated programs... As you start wanting to pause your code and step through it to fix a bug in your code... And especially if you like event-based programming, garbage collection, and threading... Well, that's where Netduino becomes the only option.

You will see us recommending the Arduino for some projects around here. It's a pretty cool product. Both projects are helping build the same open source community. We'll also be building some very specific accessories for Netduino and actively promoting and supporting them for Arduino. We'd like to see the whole community grow. But that said, we think Netduino is a really excellent product. If you want to do cool things with a microcontroller--without all the complication--Netduino is for you.

Chris

[Izzmo]

As you start wanting to pause your code and step through it to fix a bug in your code... And especially if you like event-based programming, garbage collection, and threading... Well, that's where Netduino becomes the only option.

That is probably the biggest + in my book.

[sbma44]

Sounds like an interesting project! But I have to say: the name you've chosen for Netduino really rankles, and I wish you'd change it.

As an open platform, Arduino has benefited from the creative names that people have used for derived products: Freeduino, Boarduino, Ardweeny, Japanino, Wiseduino, etc. These boards are Arduino bootloader-compatible: software written for the Arduino will work on them.

"Duino" is not a suffix meaning "hobbyist microcontroller platform". It's a specific reference to the Arduino project -- a project that, unless I'm mistaken, your efforts are not compatible with. I have to assume that you've chosen the name of your project in order to capitalize on the considerable success of the Arduino project. That's certainly understandable, but in this case I think it's likely to produce confusion among Arduino users -- particularly new ones. I think you're doing a disservice to the Arduino community, and I hope you'll consider renaming your project.

I should say: I'm an Arduino user, but I have nothing to do with the people running the project, and of the derived projects, or those who own the trademark. Perhaps they feel differently.

[Izzmo]

I agree with you somewhat, but you could argue that it could be derived in some shape for form since all the Arduino shields, I belive, are compatible with Netduino.

[Chris Walker]

Sounds like an interesting project! But I have to say: the name you've chosen for Netduino really rankles, and I wish you'd change it.

Hi sbma44,

Arduino is a pretty cool platform, and the community surrounding it is nothing short of awesome. The Arduino team (some of whom I have had the pleasure of meeting and becoming friends with) are really nice folks and they have done a lot to help launch the open source hardware movement. I look forward to seeing what we can do together to continue building the open source hardware community.

The Netduino is 100% open source and provides Arduino shield pin compatibility. Like the XDuino and other non-AVR "duino" platforms before us, we also want to provide code compatibility with the Processing libraries used on Arduino. We'll be working with members of the Arduino community to help provide support for Processing commands on Netduino. We are also working on some solutions for users of Arduino hardware. More on that as it develops.

We're really proud of the open source community, and we hope that this new entry brings more members into it. Some people will use Netduino as a stepping stone to Arduino (or raw AVR programming). This will be a journey for us all, and we look forward to helping out where we can.

Thanks again for your participation in the forums!

Chris

[Brettski]

If you outgrow the Netduino, there are a number of high-end boards (200MHz! 8MB!) that you can get for a few hundred dollars. Some even have integrated networking and touchscreens. Any standard .NET Micro Framework code should move between boards by simply re-deploying the application to another board.

Where can these higher end boards be found?

Thank you.

[Chris Walker]

Where can these higher end boards be found?

Thank you.

Tahoe II by Device Solutions (100MHz)
Analog Devices BF518F FMC Development Kit by AVNET (400MHz)

Also, there's a somewhat outdated hardware matrix archived at Microsoft.

Chris

[CW2]

Where can these higher end boards be found?

Also, check out Jan Kučera's web: list of the boards, the big comparison table and e-shop.

[Gadget999]

Hi Guys

I am a .net software developer who has been using arduino for a while and wanted to consider the netduino

i have a couple of questions

does the netduino use a AVR atmenl chip

can it run multiple programs

can you pass variables between the different programs

does it have interrupts or events (so i can measure a rpm)

can i use an arduino library

is there a PID library avialble for the netduino ?

[Chris Walker]

Hi Gadget999,

does the netduino use a AVR atmenl chip

The Netduino uses a 32-bit ARM microcontroller (SAM7X on the Netduino and Netduino Plus, STM32F2/4 on the Netduino Go and Shield Base). These microcontrollers are much higher end chips, 32-bit, and with lots more speed and memory.

can it run multiple programs

The .NET Micro Framework runs one app at a time, but you can run multiple threads of code. You can also use AppDomains to load multiple programs on the fly.

can you pass variables between the different programs

You can pass objects and variables between threads, yes.

does it have interrupts or events (so i can measure a rpm)

Yes, .NET Micro Framework is fully event-capable. Most of the power you're used to with .NET...you get in .NET Micro Framework.

can i use an arduino library

No. The Arduino programming language is designed specifically for Arduino boards (predominantly 8-bit AVR code). There are lots of samples and Arduino Shields which have been ported to C#...and some users have created Arduino-style command libraries.

BTW, welcome to the Netduino community,

Chris