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Split: Waiting on Netduino.IP preview builds


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#1 wendo

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Posted 23 May 2015 - 08:40 PM

Sadly, as seems to be the norm with Netduino, rather than getting something working first, it's perpetually stuck in the adding features and expanding scope phase without ever finishing the original features. 

 

Chris, you're obviously aware this isn't the first time your ETA's have been laughable, ridiculously optimistic. Your original post on this topic is from January, saying releases every 2 weeks. It's no almost June and there has still only been one. You say there have been internal ones, but why make the fortnightly releases claim unless you're actually going to release them? Not to mention you again make the couple of weeks call on 30th April and again... no release, and in those 5 months, other than adding Wifi we'll get an IP and MAC address. At this rate sending actual traffic is years away

 

I think it's fair to say your existing users want reliable networking on existing hardware. We don't want a wifi stack for hardware we don't have, we want our existing hardware to work the way it was supposed too.

 

Honestly, this is probably my last post here. I'll be walking away from the Netduino community and hardware as it's now obvious you guys can't deliver on promises (The modules for the GO are probably the biggest example of this) and rather than working on promised hardware and updates instead would rather spend time on shiny new stuff (the Netduino 3).

 

Yes, some of this is problems with NETMF (which I'll also be avoiding) but none of the projects I've ever tried on the Netduino have ever been able to run long term. If you want your devices at the center of IOT then they need to be reliable, and not take years after release to get there



#2 ukkiwisurfer

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Posted 24 May 2015 - 08:57 PM

Hi, 

 

I've also decided that I'm not going to continue with the Netduino platform primarily because of 2 factors: 

 

1) The inability of the Netduino team to deliver basic working infrastructure code on time (to their delivery schedule).

2) with the open sourcing of .NET (and specifically WCF) I see no need to constrain myself to the ancient Micro .NET platform and it's restrictions.

 

I've 25 years of commercial software engineering experience, most of it on server side and in multi-threaded development, and I find the basic networking issues on the platform inexcusable in this day and age.

 

I'm moving off the Netduino platform to more open and capable hardware that can accommodate the demands of the 21st century. I'm also removing myself from being dependent on the Netduino team, who seem unable to project manage themselves to deliver on time.

 

It might seem a little harsh but there is no excuse for the manner in which the community here have been treated by the Netduino team over this new build. I can't justify relying on a supplier who doesn't communicate what they are doing and also doesn't honour their communicated goals. 

 

I will be shortly releasing my Micro.NET libraries for general use on GitHub (under an open licence) as I move my focus back to the Core .NET framework for embedded development.

 

Regards,

Jason.

 



#3 Chris Walker

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Posted 24 May 2015 - 11:17 PM

Hi wendo,

Thank you very much for your feedback. We're here. We're listening. Point taken.

Yes, some of this is problems with NETMF (which I'll also be avoiding) but none of the projects I've ever tried on the Netduino have ever been able to run long term. If you want your devices at the center of IOT then they need to be reliable, and not take years after release to get there

So sorry about the NETMF+lwIP networking bugs. We have a very feature-rich networking stack in NETMF but unfortunately it hasn't always performed as well as we'd like. Netduino.IP is a pretty big hammer to solve the issue, and I wish we could have delivered it sooner.

We are checking new code in over at the Netduino.IP GitHub repo while we're getting new builds ready, if you'd like to play with the code before the official preview builds are posted. The link layer code, network config interop code, Ethernet code, and network address resolution code is all tested and posted over there--and the IPv4Layer and UDP code should be posted shortly as well.

https://github.com/n...ino/Netduino.IP

On reliability...can you give us a bit more detail on the reliability issues (long-term) you were experiencing with lwIP on Netduino? We have had a lot of long-term reliability success with the wireless hybrid Netduino.IP stack and we want to make sure we bring that same long-term reliability to the wired/core Netduino.IP stack for Netduino Plus 2 as well.

On builds...I will make sure we get a compiled build of the Netduino.IP preview for Netduino Plus 2 posted in the next few days. I know that you may have moved on from NETMF+lwIP, but you're a valued part of our community and I hope you'll stick around and kick the tires on the new code. NETMF fills a really crucial role in the IoT ecosystem and hopefully we can make it shine together.

Chris

#4 Chris Walker

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Posted 24 May 2015 - 11:25 PM

Hi ukkiwisurfer,

So sorry for any poor communication regarding the new Netduino.IP stack. We didn't mean to leave you hanging there. [If you'd like to play with the new code...much of it is already checked into the GitHub repo.]

On openness and capability: what can we do to make the Netduino platform and NETMF even better for your requirements? NETMF plays a crucial role in the modern IoT...and we want to make it great.

We're really glad to have you around in the community, and hope you'll stick around (or come back in a few weeks) and play with the new Netduino.IP builds and give us your feedback. NETMF and Netduino both benefit from your expertise and experiences...and hopefully we can show our gratitude as we make this platform even better together.

Chris

#5 Billy Propes

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Posted 25 May 2015 - 12:25 AM

I'm afraid to report that I could not agree with both wendo and ukkiwisurfer more. I have pretty much switched over to a Raspberry Pi 2 for the majority of my development endeavors.

I own almost every single device in the netduino family. I have been a netduino go user since they first came out. I had high hopes for the Go's plug-and-play, rapid development ability. However, we have been waiting years (not months, but years..... plural) for SecretLabs to get their act together and start releasing software and modules for it on time and of reasonable quality. Unfortunately, to date, this has not happened.

As I mentioned, I own pretty much every single device in the Netduino family. From the mini, up through the regular netduino, the plus, plus 2, and go. All of them except the Netduino 3. The 3 was the last straw. When SecretLabs came out with that before they even got the promised modules out for the Go, they slapped every single Go owner in the face. We have been told for years that SecretLabs was working hard on the new modules and then we find out that they were instead, working on yet another incomplete product to try and sell us.

The Pi 2 does have some drawbacks, such as boot-time and increased power requirements. However, with Its ability to run Windows 10, and a much more complete version of the .Net framework, along with it's much, much lower price-point and increased storage and ram, it has pretty much relegated every single Netduino product into the background.

SecretLabs was the best .Net player in the market in my opinion. But, due to their continual inability to release software on-time, they are no longer.

I'm sorry Chris, but I will no longer be buying any more Netduino products.




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