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#39224 Powerful Aquarium Lighting

Posted by Magpie on 12 November 2012 - 11:29 PM in General Discussion

Have you assigned all nets to track types that have the min clearance of 0.2? Try and investigate one DRC error, you should be able to reduce it to 0 errors. Recently I have only been using 1 track type, and assign every net to it. Then when I want to adjust the track or segment width I change the default width. It is because many of my tracks have different thicknesses. I go small as I approach the pins. I don't think this is how you are supposed to work, but it is quicker for me. I made another mistake with my boards, I think I sent the solder paste mask instead of the solder mask. Who knows what will come back, but it will be wrong. The solder paste mask is for making the stencils. Completely wrong. Fail. $50 dollars worth of Landfill. I don't know if you can find a bigger chip that has so much ADC. 3 differential channels is pretty darn good for a 20 pin chip. Addressing them using spi wont be such a problem but there is a bit of code to write and debug. Damp basement can probably be fixed with a fan or some fancy passive ventilation. If you can get the damp air out, you have a good chance. It iwll be good for the foundations to be a bit drier. Still it is a worry. Let me check the gerbers before manufacture.



#39235 Powerful Aquarium Lighting

Posted by Magpie on 13 November 2012 - 02:24 AM in General Discussion

PCB pre manufacture check list. Done with Kicad and Seeed in mind but should be applicable to most boards. TODO update as I think of more things to check. SCHEMATIC: schematic DRC passes ok. FOOTPRINTS: pcb foot prints are correct. PCB: design rules are set to match the manufacturer. Current general settings: Minimum value for tracks width: 0.2032 mm Minimum value for vias diameter: 0.8890 mm No microvias. all tracks, set min clearance .2 if possible then .17 if possible otherwise .15 as absolute min. do mount holes do flooded zones. add version and name of board. add order number if necessary add image? add info to silkscreen for all connectors, but not underneath. make sure silkscreen has orientation of all unipolar items. check mechanical clearances DRC passes. in preferences->dimensions->pad mask clearance. set global solder mask 0.3mm for very small check drill sizes are all standard (somehow) PLOT: probably turn component values off when generating gerbers. dont invert y axis Files: .drl Back.gbl front.gtl Mask_Back.gbs (dont confuse Mask with SolderPMask. (solder paste))_ Mask_Front.gts SilkS_Back.gbo SilkS_Front.gto subtract silkscreen from mask plot board outlines on layers GERBERS: Make sure all align. Make sure zones don't flood kelvin connections. make sure one via looks right. make sure one through hole pin looks right. make sure one top smd looks right. look at the smallest smd. check silkscreen isn't confusing and has all required details. check each layer individually to make sure clearance is ok. SENDING: Add Readme.txt with order/quote number Zip: 6 files + drill file + readme.txt make sure that the board outline is in gerbers



#39127 Powerful Aquarium Lighting

Posted by Magpie on 12 November 2012 - 05:42 AM in General Discussion

Hi I found and fixed a new problem. I am learning as I go, I just noticed this. The problem is also on my expensive black boards for steff 3. damn it. Any work around I do is going to take a bit of work. The problem is the flooded zone on the ground plane, floods the ground kelvin connection, thereby negating its kelviness. I fixed it on your board by doing cutouts of the zones where it interferes with the kelvin connection. Attached is the repaired board. The Kelvin connection enables us to ADC some very low voltages. So it needs to be as noise and bias free as possible. I have checked drc, It said some tracks were too close. I didn't change them I just set the DRC clearance of all tracks to 0.2mm from 0.25mm and everything passed. Seeed studio should be ok with a clearance of 6mil or 0.15mm. the inductors seem to have the right footprint, they will solder fine. Good luck with the house.

Attached Files




#38664 Powerful Aquarium Lighting

Posted by Magpie on 07 November 2012 - 09:54 AM in General Discussion

here is a list of pcb manufacturers in ol' blighty

pcb manufacturers


Or probably go with seeed.

Try editing the yellow pcb outline layer, I just looked at your board there is loads of room, but you may just have to reduce the copper pour a fraction.
Just fit (edit) the pcb edges to be 50mm apart. and move the copper pour to be at least say 1mm away. Move the fiducials too or you can just delete them.

Or when you are completely done with the other stuff I can do this step for you. I gave it a quick test it took just a few minutes.

the price from seeed is going to be $US 35.00 and if you waste $15 on something you dont want then you get free postage. The have a resistor book 805, but at $60 it is very expensive.

when you order from seeed you are not paying for service so do everything they say and it will be ok. I forgot my order number on one board but it didn't matter it still came. This time I put it under a big inductor so no-one could see it.



#37736 Powerful Aquarium Lighting

Posted by Magpie on 21 October 2012 - 11:09 PM in General Discussion

Last time I used Seeed Studio but they do boards in certain sizes which may not fit your board. They do boards in multiples of 5cm dimensions. See what fits! They are a truly minimilist service. The advantage of these guys is they are super cheap. 10 boards for $50 or something. itead is the other very cheap one. I also used Olimex? Bulgaria. They were good and but a bit more expensive, but based in Europe so may be faster. (Actually they have suspended their service because they are at full capacity.) So much for the Euro zone economic calamity. You could try Fritzing and just get one board done and see if it works. Take some time to get the silkscreen right, it makes soldering much easier. Also dont expect zero mistakes first board, aim for no critical mistakes. I haven't really done much layout so I am learning too. But trying to explain the Kelvin connections to someone is hard, so I thought I would just do them.



#40278 Powerful Aquarium Lighting

Posted by Magpie on 27 November 2012 - 01:34 AM in General Discussion

Hi

For example we have quoted for 500ma per channel, what if either in the firmware or in the netduino code I set the output to 50%? Does the circuit just take what it needs, does the additional power create issues or is this wasted in the form of heat output from the power supply?

This is actually fundamental to the workings of electricity, I didn't realise that you didn't know this stuff.
The way mankind uses electricity is normally at a constant specified voltage, it could have been current but we like voltage.
Loads are often characterised as an impedance or resistance. Sometimes it is constant like a resistor often it is varying like an oven turning on and off or a monitor changing brightness.

When you connect a load to a nominal voltage they work together to find an operating point which is a voltage and also a current (and therefore a power and a resistance too). As long as the load doesnt draw more current than the source can supply then the source or power supply should sit at near its nominal voltage, the load at this operating point will only draw whatever current it needs.
So for a 5v supply.
A resistor 1 ohm will draw 5 amps.
A buck converter led power supply will draw roughly 250mA if it is supplying the led at 3.15V and 300mA.
the same buck converter at pwm of 0% will draw roughly 40mA (due to overhead of the chip and the gate drive) and put out zero amps.
If the buck converter is completely disconnected from the supply then the output voltage will still be 5v but no current will flow.
If there is a short on the board then a large current will flow, and the supply wont be able to provide the full 5 volts, fortunately your fuse will soon blow and completely disconnect the supply.

Also if say 15 channels were at 0ma with the 5v 11A supply, would this mean I could take the other 15 channels up to 1A per channel?

This is true.
Just remember there is a difference between the power supply current and the output LED current. This is because you have a buck converter.
If you used a linear regulator instead of a buck converter, then input and output currents would be the same.
You have a power supply (wall wart) supplying another power supply (led driver) therefore there will be two operating points both dependant on what current the leds want to draw which is dependant on what pwm you set.

I have bought an Atten 858D+ as per Dave's web blog, although I bought before I watched his review and that made me feel like I got a good deal at £30 including postage.

Sounds like a bargain.

Don't start with the big supply use your wall warts first, and start with smalller fuses test the boards individually. Put on a dimmer pot for initial testing.

George Best said.

I spent a lot of money on Women, Booze and Electronics. the rest I just squandered.


possibly misheard.



#40419 Powerful Aquarium Lighting

Posted by Magpie on 29 November 2012 - 12:53 PM in General Discussion

I will get some low blow fuses like you recommended 100ma or so.

Second thoughts I think they are a bit low to be useful. Dont worry about them but do wire up a current limited wall wart or something.


I'm going to test with the 1A 5v I have and will probably run the boards at a lower output for testing, maybe 200ma or so?

Something like that , turn on with the current limit set to say 40mA and the lights dim. then wind it up checking for too much warmth in the various components.


This being said I will need to add a few extra resistors for testing, I guess you would recommend creating some form of regulator then for the boards especially whilst using the wall wart.

I meant power resistors to initially sub in place of the leds. Just a few 2, 5 or 10W wired up to be one or two ohms. Until you get the control circuitry and firmware correct and tested you don't want to blow the leds.

I think I am going to get a 5v 20amp switching supply eventually with build in protection as listed above, so it will give me some scope for expansion or if I really wanted to push the leds. Plus I guess the fact its switching should make it a little more efficient when running at lower output right?

I would wait until you are happy with the boards. I still dont like the 5v and also I think I have made a layout mistake with the 5 volt tracks. I don't know how critical it will be but it isn't optimal. We should really have two separate rails for the 5v. So the noise from the leds switching doesn't upset the micro or the analogue. The analogue 5v is already separate from the micro 5v but the micro is sharing a supply with the fets and therefore will be subject to unnecessary noise. Sorry about that, It only recently occurred to me. Ideally we would supply the micro with an output from a linear regulator which is nice and clean. Have you got a cro? Anyway we will see when the boards come back.


http://www.zen22142.zen.co.uk/Circuits/Power/add-on.html

This seems good enough. But you may need to beef up the transistor and lessen the resistance to give say 500mA.

But you will loose a volt with this the current limiting, so just for testing start with 8-12v, put the current limiter, then put a standard LM7805 (or 317 + 2 resistors) and then you project.
the current limit should be selectable so maybe switch in/out a resistor. Make on setting 30mA to limit damage on board faults. and the other one 500mA, so you can actually test you channels and firmware, without burning anything.



#46554 Powerful Aquarium Lighting

Posted by Magpie on 02 March 2013 - 11:39 PM in General Discussion

It's a shame I live on the other side of the planet, I am a sparky too so I could help with the wiring.

I have been scratching around for Electrical work and it has been a bit slow, but I have also been given a job reviewing somebodies embedded electrical project, It is quite interesting but I'm afraid my assessment is a bit damning. I didn't want this as I know how hard it is to finish projects let alone make them perfect. Anyway my client says don't hold back, they want the truth, and there have been more than a few failures in the field.

Hopefully this will lead into a replacement board, I want to go Arm m3 or maybe m4. 32 bit code yay. 8bit does get a bit annoying.

 

 

Node Zero, I'm not familiar with this term.

Sounds like you have big plans, you might have to resign your day job to implement them.

 

I made up 5 x Steff 0.4 they all work, my production techniques need refining, but each time I try a different way and learn a bit.

You have to manage it so that the solder pasted doesn't dry out before you finish placing. I think the vacuum pick up idea is good but I haven't managed to do it. RE. Mikes Electric Stuff.

All the boards work well, I have only mounted one of the version 0.4s. My lab has 3 led lights now, more than bright enough.

I added a switch to them so when they are turned off they draw just about 10uA.

 

 

 




#44356 Powerful Aquarium Lighting

Posted by Magpie on 28 January 2013 - 04:28 AM in General Discussion

I guess you have noticed on the current limiter ps that the negative input is not connected to the negative output. Which is a bit unusual I suppose, but in this case it is correct. Remove RLoad from the circuit and replace it with your boards for testing. Your boards should have an input jumper with two wires, these connect to where the load resister was. If you are worried about polarity, don't, we should have reverse polarity protection, give it a try. If it is wrong the current limiter should kick in. If that fails then the fuse should blow. If the fuse doesn't blow and you have 5 volts on the input pins, then it will mean that you can start testing firmware. Initially you dont even need to insert the Attiny chip. However when you insert a chip make sure the power is off. As to what size wall wart you will need 9-12V dc, regulated or not wont matter. The current limiting psu should be ok with anything under 20v. Dont use a battery!!! use a wall wart 500mA to 1A is best. Batteries can really damage stuff and start fires if there is a short. A car battery is capable of 100s of amps whereas a wall wart will only give 1 or so amps. I have never built this circuit myself mind you, but I am sure it will work if you have the wiring right. While the circuit is switched on use your fingers to check for abnormal heat output from the different components, also if you hear or smell something strange then turn power off and check things.

 

I cant seem to get motivated to solder my own Steff4 boards yet. Maybe soon. I think I am going to do it in two steps. All the numerous hardy components first and reflow them. Then all the rest and reflow the entire board a second time. I find if you are too slow the paste dries out and isn't as sticky. Also have a quick reference board already done, so you don't spend too much time wondering which resister goes where.

 

I don't actually use the liquid flux, but I think it is good for difficult ICs. Did I give you a link to Mikes Electric Stuff? Hes a one man SMD factory.




#43131 Powerful Aquarium Lighting

Posted by Magpie on 10 January 2013 - 09:22 PM in General Discussion

For some reason we don't pay our VAT (10%) on items below $1000. And buying overseas is the norm for any serious purchases.

 

 

House negotiations are not going my way, out of the £11k devaluation the bank imposed, I'm currently fitting 8 of the 11

Sorry I dont understand, but then I don't know much about buying houses. I would take care as it is such a huge purchase.

 

Get some reflow practice on the hardier components first,

If you want a challenge try DFN with a thermal pad and no solder mask between the pads. That's what I did for the Solar charger. Each one took about 5 goes. Once you get the hang of it, it gets easier.

I must admit I found 2 soldering irons easiest for the big inductors.




#40485 Powerful Aquarium Lighting

Posted by Magpie on 30 November 2012 - 09:12 AM in General Discussion

Hi BD131 should be ok or even BC337 should be ok for the current limiter. Just need Ic max > 500mA. For the diodes In4004 or In914 or In4148 should be ok. Get at least one LM317 as it will give a very clean supply. Some vero board. A resistor pack? There are no component changes for the separate rails except having 3 input power connectors onto the board 1: Gnd both supplies. 2: +5v for fets and bjts. can be switched mode. 3: +5v for attiny. maybe a linear regulated ie. Nice and clean. On a side note, I was made redundant today. It came as a bit of a shock but I am not so worried, I have a few options, my wife has a job and I need a long holiday. Might do a bit of fishing. I want to stay in electronics but may have to do programming or electricians work.



#37418 Powerful Aquarium Lighting

Posted by Magpie on 19 October 2012 - 08:48 AM in General Discussion

Fixed 5 volts as best I could, still needs mount holes.

Attached Files




#37401 Powerful Aquarium Lighting

Posted by Magpie on 18 October 2012 - 10:03 PM in General Discussion

I just remembered, I didn't put in any drill holes for mounting. And I made a mistake with the 5v rail. I will redo the 5v, it should fork at the bulk capacitor with one trace going to the attiny and the other trace going everywhere else. This should give better noise immunity. I think I prefer the 12volt version though. Noise may be a problem with the 5v version, it is hard to say. Although I think you are using the internally regulated reference for the ADC so it might be ok. The 12v version gets 5 volts by using a linear regulator, this give it a very clean 5v. Whereas the 5v rail in your circuit has noise from the switching of the Fets straight onto it.



#30125 Powerful Aquarium Lighting

Posted by Magpie on 02 June 2012 - 11:17 PM in General Discussion

Hi Andrew I have been running my SteffShield for a week now and I am having trouble with flickering at low duty cycles, I think you will have to watch em noise between channels. I do have three channels in close proximity. I am going to go back to the Attiny model for my domestic lights project. At least it doesn't flicker.



#31702 Powerful Aquarium Lighting

Posted by Magpie on 07 July 2012 - 01:54 PM in General Discussion

Hi

Thanks for pointing out the missing caps from my BOM, it was also missing R1.
All the caps are just decoupling or filtering caps of 100n 0805 and the Resistor was just a 10k 1206.
I cant believe I made this mistake, It just goes to show how easy it is. I am definitely not a computer.

I haven't gone exhaustively through your list as it seems your not quite decided the best way to go anyway.

As far as boards go I would go the modular approach, so if a board fails you can have spares, x channels per board.
Maybe 3, maybe 8, maybe 16. Design decision.

Also that way you could have some boards at 12 volts some at 5.

Actually on the subject of design decisions, the way just about every project I have worked on has been is that you never design it right first time anyway.
So there is no point trying to perfect the initial design. The moment the first working version comes out, somebody sees things that they hadn't noticed before.

So I think,
  • Get something out there,
  • Get something out there that isn't impossible to change or fix.
  • Keep changing it till you think it's right.
If you go the small number of channels per board approach, you can chop it and change it. fix it without turning the whole thing off.

I am writing as I think so the conclusion of what I think you should do is 3 channel boards (wait till I confirm that the design works) start with 5 or 12 volts, (your decision) and see how things go.

As far as 5 or 12 volts for 1 led.
5 volts can be slightly more efficient but, will it always be one led, because you can't easily change it.
If you go 5 volts you may have a noisy supply to the micro, this may or may not be a problem for the Current sensing on the Attiny.

If you go 5 volts you don't need the step up bc847 and it's two resistors. But you do need a different, logic level FET, just like AHellene's circuit.
5v you can use a smaller inductor.
I would use 12 volts but there could be a case for 5v and event a case for 7 volts.

If you want to use my circuit with 12v
just use a different TVS (12v operating voltage).
and remove everything including C3 to L2 reading left to right on the schematic.
Jumper the 24 volt rail to the 12volt rail.

If you want to use my circuit with 5 volts.
just use a different TVS (5v operating voltage).
and remove everything including C3 to U1 reading left to right on the schematic.
Jumper the 24 volt rail to the 12volt and the 5 volt rail.
you don't need the 3 x step up bc847 and short r13 to r15 and open circuit r16 to r18
It gets a bit harder as you may need a clean supply for the micro. I don't know.
Personally I wouldn't bother. It probably would be ok, but I think 12v will give you what you need.

Do you think this side of the circuit can be powered practically off the netduino

No the netduino can only source less than 1 amp.
I would power the netduino from my 12v supply. Maybe via a resistor to just take away a bit of the heat.

Also one of the resistors is marked as a bit wide, is this the foot print or the value and does it matter?

That is a mistake, it was left there from some other current sense resistor that I had considered, please disregard.

ps. You probably don't want to populate r28,r29, r30, I just put the footprints in for emergencies. I think 100mOhms if the lowest we could go anyway.
Also you don't need R12, this is also a contingency footprint.

Perhaps even provide a jumper option, where by you can select 5v or 12v and swap out the power supply accordingly?

You will loose very little running 1 led at 12v vs 1 led at 5. Only really in the higher series resistance of the inductor because you need a bigger inductor.
Just run at 12v.

How many ma are your running your Crees at in this circuit?

Steff shield is currently running 3 channels of 7 leds at 24 volts and at about 500mA. (XTE warm white) No heating problems on the shield and very little heat sink on the leds.
I will do 7 leds as well with my 24 volt prototype.
I want to move to 24 - 48. but will probably have to settle on a 24-36v version and 36-48v version, the black regulator doesn't have a wide input range. I just need to change a resistor value to switch between the two variations.

One thing that will work for you is the input circuitry on the Dimmer channels, you should be able to put your square wave straight in.
The input filters use 10k and 0.1uF which gives 166 Hz. If you can give it a pwm above 15KHz then your filtering is done.

BOM is corrected, thanks for finding the errors.

Attached Files




#28258 Powerful Aquarium Lighting

Posted by Magpie on 28 April 2012 - 10:47 AM in General Discussion

Hi Here's some info cap 4.7uF 50volt ceramic mount close to pins C3216Y5V1H475Z 33uh inductor resonant freq > 3 Mhz, low series resistance < 100mOhms, shielded or toroid, min 2.5 amps murata 32330C or wurth 744770133, I must admit I like the toroids as you feel the weight of them, you mean business. somehow get down to 290mOhms, it might be cheaper to parrallel up about 4x 1.0 and 1.something resistors. use 1% tolerance cost effective. definitely use at least 2x parallel resistors for flexibility and accuracy. Total power rating of each the resistors should be met by a factor of at least 4 just so they don't run too hot. Watts = (180mV ^2) / R. the diode can be 5819 rated at 40-60 volts but there are many others including MBRS340 which is 3 amps 40 volts, don't go higher than 60 volts you will lose somewhere else. Rt just needs to be a standard 1% resistor, I haven't done the calcs , try 50k, 100K or 200K . low power is fine. 30 x 0.1uf or should this be 2uf? caps (please can you provide specific characteristics thats what I really am terrible at) I seem to remember some ambiguity in the datasheet here but I can only see the 2uF now. So use that. I think I used .22uF, don't ask me why, and it failed. As usual ceramic, very close to pins and say 25-50 volts. If I have forgotten something just tell me. Good luck. I am wait on my replacement NCL30160s, but I have the rest of the shield going okay, which is only the step down power supply, powering an arduino. ( Lower cost of failure)



#27976 Powerful Aquarium Lighting

Posted by Magpie on 23 April 2012 - 11:28 PM in General Discussion

Hi

Glad it is going well.

The good news for me is my NCL30160 boards finally arrived, so I may as well power them up.
I am going to do it at 24 volts and put Transient suppressor diodes on the inputs for a bit of protection.
I will let you know how it goes.

OnSemi assured me they tested the chips and said it was probably overheating.
If you look at the photo I posted on the SteffShield thread you will have to agree with them.

But as it is decision time for you, I will give you some thoughts becasue as you know proscrastination is the enemy of success.

I would go 12 volts per channel and use a mains down to 12v supply. This means you can add extra power to any channel if you need it, but you will need the single inductor per channel.

I like the meanwell supplies and I would get one that is highly efficient, this doesn't mean super expensive. ie. higher than 90% at rated current. Try a recent model of the meanwell ones.
The one in you picture looks ok but you really cant tell from a picture.

What other parts do I need and what adjustments need to be made in terms of the power supply?

As far as Amps go .
Work in watts and then at the last minute divide it into amps.

Add other power requirements and led requirements.

the leds will be say 30 x 3 watts = 90 watts

other stuff say 50 watts???

= 140 watts
add some spare capacity and you have say 250-350 watts.
divide by volts and you have say 25 amps.
so that is a fairly hefty supply.

ps. I know this sounds like a computer psu but they aren't very efficient.

you can probably add extra amps later if you really need to.




So do you think this is powerful enough for the 30 channels if we base on 30 Cree xp-e 3watts leds? Or would you suggest a high voltage perhaps 12v? I'm just mindful about you saying the NCLs operate better with lower voltages and that I will just be wasting power with high voltages as my leds only need upto about 3.5v max.

the NCLs with the inductors in the standard circuit will limit the current and the voltage to appropiate levels.


Finally what additional parts will I need to take in to account the PWM from the open drain of the TLCs?

just a pullup resistor. the tlcs need to put out a square wave <= 20khz, I assume they can do this. you better check.

Also do I need any current limiting circuits and if so what parts would I need?

Just need the standard NCL circuit, running at 12v and definately use a nearby TVS diode with an nominal operating voltage of 12-24v and a let through voltage of 27-32 volts. like this SMA6J24A-TR
Also you need anti static wriststrap connected to earth to use the NCLs and dont take them out of the silver bag until you have your wrist strap on.

I tried a value of 33uH for the inductor, use surface mount for the diodes and caps so you can put them really close to the pins.
In order of component closeness to the chip
1. caps ceramic (smd, if possible)
2 diode
3 inductor
4 resistors
5 caps electrolytics if any

the other thing I have found is that I am using the new Cree XTE leds now, at around 2 bucks each without the aluminium backing.
Last night I sent off a design for my own mcpcb, to mount them, this should cut costs a lot.
They are rated to be very similar in performance to the XPG but 1/3 the cost. so I bought a 100 of them.

No worries about helping, good luck, I just hope you have better luck with the chips than I did. (Luck? It may have been incompetance)




#26779 Powerful Aquarium Lighting

Posted by Magpie on 09 April 2012 - 02:15 PM in General Discussion

I am thinking for your purposes, you can get away without current sensing.
You just need over current protection.
This will give you
less losses
very simple circuit
excellent linearity, good for colour.
but at a cost of

fair bit of software fiddling if you change the leds per circuit, or supply voltage, if this is the case you will have to reset the max pwm
you will need fuses too, to protect your leds. make sure the fuses blow before the leds.

Have you worked out how many channels of how many leds?
Is it 32 channels of 1 led?
For the single led channels I don't think I would bother getting an inductor either.

just something like.
tlc -> PMD3001D -> nfet gate.(logic level fet, or maybe STN3NF06L) 

and VCC - fuse - leds - nfet drain and nfet source to ground.


or VCC - fuse - leds - inductor - nfet drain and nfet source to ground.
              |              	|
              |--- diode --------|
Obviously prototype first.


For my purposes ( domestic lighting 10 leds in series) I am going to rejig the Attiny461a, finish, improve the code, and choose the best transistors, and fet.
Maybe even go synchronous.



#32016 Powerful Aquarium Lighting

Posted by Magpie on 14 July 2012 - 01:03 PM in General Discussion

Hi


Please can you confirm that I haven't made any mistakes?

I made some changes, added to new column that flags the changes.

For the 5v version, you mentioned I need a smaller inductor, can you recommend any that would be good for the job? Or will either of the ones I all ready have do the trick which seem to be 100uh and 330uh?

I left the inductors at 100u you can probably go smaller as well, probably down to around 10u. So many variables to choose these. 100 will be fine if you have them but say 33u might be better, but only marginally.

You also said I need a different TVS diode, what would you recommend for this? PS I am probably going to order from Mouser in the UK.

Look for operating voltage of 5v, but since you are providing a regulated low noise supply off board, the only thing this will do is protect against reverse polarity.
Also bear in mind that you need to provide the regulated low noise supply off board because this is what the 12->5v part of the supply was doing.


I guess the current sense will change in value right? Do you have the equation for 700ma from a 5v input?

No the sense resistor is about right, it will be ridiculously efficient but may be prone to noise.
You may want to try 200mOhms. I tried to layout my board inputs as "kelvin" inputs. Unless you do this well your current sense inputs will be prone to noise.
Any prototypes you may want to use up to 500mOhms.

Calcs: 100mOhms at around 700mA the current sense should read .7 x .1 = 0.07 volts at full load.
We are not getting all that 700ma through the sense resistor so say we get 500mA. ( Some goes through the Shottky). = 0.05v
then we multiply by 32 in the internal gain stage = 1.6 volts. our full scale may be 3.3 volts so we get a reading of 500/1024 at full current.

Finally the parts for the dimmer channels, are these already on the BOM and do the values still stand for 5v?

Your pwm outputs should feed straight in to these as long as they are 5v full scale. Dont connect the 5v but connect the rest.

Have you recieved your boards yet and got one soldered up?

Apparently they are in transit.
I have the parts from Digikey. The murata inductors look a mess, they must've been made by the apprentice. The last ones looked great.
I have also got some really fine prismatic diffusing glass on order, it breaks up the leds nicely. The plastic ones are good too but they look shit when they are turned off.

Good luck

Attached Files




#32580 Powerful Aquarium Lighting

Posted by Magpie on 23 July 2012 - 11:44 PM in General Discussion

I got my boards back last night from Seeed Studio As usual I can see a couple of small things I would change. Especially the Silkscreen. I lost my +- on my connectors, Also the solder mask where the tracks join the pads was a bit uncovered. I don't know why I didn't see them before. Any way the footprints all seem to fit. this is only actually my third board that I have laid out ever. My bosses never gave me Layout jobs, It's normally one guy gets Altium and does all the Layout. I might be able to solder up something tomorrow. Then I have to refactor/ create some code to match it. I should've done it by now. I have used Kicad for the layout, it's a bit of a beast until you get used to it. Then there are the library files. for the foot prints. I can send you them but it might be a big file. If you are not using KIcad, then working off the pdf would be good. Most of the work is in the thinking and the tidying up. The actual track placement, if you know where you are routing is quick. I think in your case you can use any similar inductance inductor. first what inductor do you need. At 5V and one led and say 64 khz you could get away with 33u easy. The inductors job is to limit the instaneous current through the led, if your load were resistors then you wouldn't need the inductor, and you would have a chopper circuit. It also reduces em issues, by reducing ripple through your wire to the led. The only disadvantages of it are the price, space and the series resistance. So for 5v, 1 led, choose 33u and be done with it. Then choose a foot print, I don't think you need the torroids but they are cheap and huge, my ten year old son thinks they look like nuclear reactors, you could go for one of the more conventional SMD packages. Just look for a reasonable low series resistance and good price as it is probably the most expensive component. Yes the digikey bom upload was a bit of a joke. But I got my order in less than 4 days. It got here so fast that I had no idea what it was till I saw the box. the only MVC I know is the Model View Controller user interface design paradigm. Nice idea but I have never seen it implemented well. I saw it in Web Java, Visual Studio and XCode (apple) and maybe in python. Entity Framework : such general terms, seen them near each other many times but I can't place it. (Looked it up, MS's version of hibernate, object to relational DB mapping framework) Kendo: Hitting each other with bamboo sticks then bowing. I would be careful puttng MVC and entity framework together, I had this project in Java given to me once and it was totally out of my control, the MVC(JSF) and the Hibernate would talk to each other, it had a life of it's own, like Frankenstein. Errors were generating call stacks of 70 deep of which only 5 or so of the calls were code that I had access too. I was no longer a programmer I was a configurer. Yuck. Tell me what software you want to do the layout in, I will send the pdfs or the whole kicad directory accordingly. I think get inductors with a ferrite core, not powdered. resonant freq > 1mhz



#32978 Powerful Aquarium Lighting

Posted by Magpie on 01 August 2012 - 01:29 PM in General Discussion

Found these they seem relatively cheap and available what do you think?

they seemed to be $6.00 each or was that a pack of something.
Try PCE3340CT-ND I think you should be able to get something for around 50 cents, you can probably go smaller 33uF on these if you want.


In terms of the cap symbol, which library do I need to look in?

from memory it is in devices and called cp1

Also you mentioned in terms of the library that I may need some files? Do you think this is the case and is this for the PCB design as opposed to the actual schematic?


more so in pcb editor, these is an excellent pdf that is built into the toolbar on pcbeditor. use that to help find footprint names


I have the channels 1 and 2 current sensing and stable.
Now I have init/boot problems and channel 3 I cannot get to current sense.



#32960 Powerful Aquarium Lighting

Posted by Magpie on 31 July 2012 - 11:44 PM in General Discussion

C21 larger electrolytic capacitor of 50uF, I have been unable to find a suitable part even in stock on digikey, am I missing something or is this a fairly heavty cap? Can you suggest any examples any where?

This is just a bypass capacitor for the whole board. It's size depends on the power used by the board and the length of wire to to power supply and the power of your power supply.
Anything from 10uF to 220uF would be fine, I suggest 50uF but it wont make a difference.
Also its voltage rating doesn't need any high voltage either. 16v is fine but 25v is good too. Remeber it is electrolytic not ceramic. For a computer analogy, the ceramic is like your ram and the electrolytic is like your hard drive. They are often in parrallel. It should be easy to find. The pdf schematic component is wrong is should show a curve on one of the plates and a plus sign. They are unipolar and need to be orientated correctly.

Almost there with the schematic, although I have just been changing the values of the components is this ok?

Yes that is fine.
The diagram looks good otherwise,
dont worry about the DRC on those last things, you can safely ignore it.
If you really want to fix it you can edit the module and then edit the pins to be power in or whatever satisfies DRC.

On the topic of foot prints is there a standard for all the resistors I remember you mentioning an issue you had 0805 and 1206 I think?

Both of those are standard (12 mils x 6 mils) and (8mils x 5mils) dimensions with mils being 1 thousandth of an inch.
Don't go any smaller than 0805 and I would use 1206 out of choice as it will be easier to measure and fix. I used 805 on the caps so I could fit them in nice and close to the ATTiny,
and 1206 on most of the resistors. When buying another thing to watch is the tolerance, but in this case it doesn't matter too much. Though it is easy to get 10% on ceramic caps and 1% on resistors so I wouldn't settle for less, incase you have spare and want to use them on another job.

After that I reckon you are done.

Now assign and/or make footprints and do the pcb layout. I find there is a fair bit of back and forth between metric and imperial while I do and check foot prints.


But I still haven't got the firmware to do the differential ADC inputs, with the 32 x Gain,
I have measured current but only as a one sided input, and because you get no gain I only get a tiny voltage.
I will try again tonight. My feeling is that it should work so it is only a matter of time.



#32917 Powerful Aquarium Lighting

Posted by Magpie on 30 July 2012 - 11:17 PM in General Discussion

That's getting there. You must have got the gist of Kicad schematic. I find it not to bad now I know a few of the quirks. Remove r13-r18 but connect the PWM1 tag straight to the base of Q9, similarly for the other channels. Remove r12 Change C21 to a larger electrolytic. maybe 50uF. Get the polarity correct. D5, D6, D7 they are fine as is but they can be a much lower voltage eg. mbra130t or mbra140t. This may give a small cost or Vf advantage. Obviously the fets are a different number. Logic level. You can probably even get rid of R19, R20, R21, replace them by a short or make them 2-5 ohms, these are only to take some heat away from the Fet. Because you are using 5v to drive there will be less power dissapated in the gate anyway. obviously the inductors a smaller value. 33uH? those changes and I think the schematic is done. Dont really bother with the autorouter, and definately don't bother with autoplace. I have tried both, The web service auto router actually works, but I would try to mimic my boards as much as possible. Try to keep to one layer as much as possible and use a ground plane except near the edge use a 5 volt plane where I have my 24v plane. Re. my boards I found on my 24v version that the 1k on r13, r14, r15 was to big, I am changing this to about 200 and maybe reduce r16, r17, r18 to about 800 ohms. You wont be using these anyway. they were slowing things down a bit. I haven't got any sense out of the differential current sense yet, some firmware issue. Not hardware, the current sense lp filter is working fine.



#32606 Powerful Aquarium Lighting

Posted by Magpie on 24 July 2012 - 10:32 AM in General Discussion

Hi

You can't use the FDB3502 at all! Not at 5v.

This is a N Channel normal level mosfet. I am driving this at about 11 volts on, 0 volts off.

You need an N Channel logic level mosfet. You will drive this at 5 volts on, and 0 volts off.
Get one in the same package size (DPak, D2Pak)
, with a roughly similar Gate Charge Qg ( 10-30nC) lower is better.
and a low RDS on. I marked it in yellow because it needed changing. Sorry for not making this clearer.

If you used the FDB3502s they would still work, but they wouldn't switch fully on so they would have a higher Rds.
The net result is they would run hot and waste energy.

I added in the capacitor that was a 1u to my BOM

I can't remember what you want the 1u for, it probably wont hurt. Is it C1? For decoupling the power input pins of the attiny. If it is I have used 1u ceramic.
I don't follow your question. Sorry did I leave it out of the BOM I sent you? It definitely needs to be there.

Edit: Confused gate capacitance with Gate Charge



#26773 Powerful Aquarium Lighting

Posted by Magpie on 09 April 2012 - 12:54 PM in General Discussion

I take back anything I ever said about the NCL30160s

They are Junk!

I had my last one running this afternoon, and for one hour it was fine.
I went away and came back in another hour, my workshop was smokey and chip number 5 had gone short circuit. It was only running at 130mA and the chip was running cool. It did actually run very cool for the work it did. I once had it up to 800mA.

I initially had 29 volts, 130mA running into the chip but now I had 450mA running into it (I didn't read the voltage but It would have dropped to about 3-6 volts at a guess).
My current limiting supply had gone into limit mode and I had 450mA running through a breadboard to my chip. The heat in the chip was making the smoke and now it is stuck to the breadboard, I will send a photo, soonish. My smoke alarm didn't go off, it only goes off for normal cooking smells. sigh.

The only excuse I could find for this chip is that the circuit was breadboarded, and you shouldn't do this at High frequencies, but I dont actually believe the breadboarding of this circuit was a problem.

In short the NCL30160 is junk. Dont use it for your own safety.

If you look at the block diagram the short seems to be in the built in voltage regulator.

A timely reminder to take precautions when doing power electronics,
  • smoke alarm
  • current limited supply
  • fuses
  • watch closely




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