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Powerful Aquarium Lighting


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#181 mcinnes01

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 08:05 PM

Thanks for that I will add them to my order. That's terrible news about work, I'm sure a resourceful person like yourself will have no troubles finding something. The only software company I know in Aus is our HR system provider, Frontier software, no idea where in Aus but they employ about 150 developers so they should turn staff quite often. You could make your own boards and sell them as a side project I bet some of the guys on the forum make a few dollars with some of their boards or become the Australian distributer for netduino related things! That would be an awesome job building and selling micro powered gadgets, maybe no career in the short term, but I like the sound of fishing for a few months myself :) I hope you find something soon (or take a fishing trip) and good luck any way. Andy

#182 Magpie

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 09:49 AM

It's not so bad being retrenched, I already have a few small electrical jobs come up and I got a few months pay. I am enjoying the different time scale and being at home.
I am hoping to get more electronics than software for a change.

My only beef with losing my job is the fear they gave my main project, which was software, back to the consultants who will F**K it up.

A Little software saga about my work project (not actually a quote):

Project Design done with the consultants me and one other staff member. difficult software but good design outcome. Consultants did great job here.

The project was basically an Autocad plugin that talks to a SQL database which synchronises with our CRM Server which loads data from our Quickbooks.
Data is also held in the autocad design files that get updated as changes are made in CRM or in another Windows forms app.
Sales guys request designs through CRM and are returned the PDFs of the plotted designs through CRM.
Autocad designer does risk assessment and then design to meet the assessment. Autocad releases design back to DB which synchronises back to CRM.
Sounds complicated, it was and I was hoping CRM would come to the party and it actually did. When I first heard of what we were doing I thought this project has fail written all over it, but didn't say anything as I wanted the job, and this project was why I was hired.

Then we got the consultants to tender for the project, They tendered $45000 and said they could do it in 3 months. I said it wasn't possible for me to do it in 3 months. So I couldn't compete, I would just manage them. Which isn't my strongest suit.
So they get the tender and after 6 weeks I check progress and they haven't started. 3 months and the Winforms app is sent to me but it is just a hollow shell of an app they once sold to someone else. One year later and it doesn't work and the winforms app doesn't even make sense so I don't know how to use it. the Synchronizer has the code written but not tested so obviously it has at least a month of debugging to get it going.
The CRM modifications were done, but probably only at Alpha stage.

So at that point I took the app back because they were too busy to do it anyway and in 6-12 months it finally did work and was being used. We have done about 50 designs in the last couple of months.
Stage One was finished.
I manage to throw most of there code away. Not out of spite but anything I don't understand has to go, anything that is hard to debug also has to go, such as those annoying .Net Visually designed DataSets.

So now I am on the outer, but I am hoping my project doesn't die from neglect.
The other guy I worked with on this project is an extremely good BA but a dodgy coder, but I think he can handle it, if he gets it given back.

Anyway that's my rant. Apart from that life is very good.

Tell me when your boards arrive. And how they work out.

I got my boards back for a Solar mppt charger based on the Attiny861a and I was checking the current measurement, it only uses 100mOhm sense resistor and the attiny firmware control loop, it is rock solid, doesn't move a bit. That is good as your boards have the exact same control loop.

When you need some firmware I can give you the basics.
I have one chip programmed to test each channel initially. So you just plug them in and check it on the Cro see if it's all ok.
Only then put the real firmware in.
Once that is solid you can make some descisions about comms from the Netduino, and what Netduino.
STEFF Shield High Powered Led Driver shield.

#183 mcinnes01

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 07:33 PM

Hi,

I just got my boards back today! Part buying time!

Posted Image

They seem to look ok as far as I can tell (despite the solder mask not being pulled back quite as far as perhaps it should be). The only thing I can say is some of the resistors and caps especially around the attiny are quite close but I guess not too close to cause issues, how did you get on with these when soldering, I guess yours were of similar distance to one-another?

I found one thing I need to add to my order straight away and thats the ic holders for the attinys, I thought I had some but mine are all 14,16 and some other wider pin alignments.

Just to recap on extras...

The diode you suggested for the current limiter, I added them but both the BD131 and BC337aren't available.

Are these ok for the LV317?

Do I need any additional components for the current limiter and what size fuse would you suggest for the board, do these need to be smaller whilst testing then a little more tolerant once I'm happy with everything?

In terms of LED load replacement in the form of resistors what would you suggest and would you suggest changing my current sense to a lower value for initial testing i.e. to produce say 300ma instead of 700ma or just do it in the firmware? If so can you suggest some component characteristics for either/both?

I'm going to order my paste, flux, tweezers, heat proof tape etc off ebay as its cheaper, I kind of thought I had a little more time to wait for the boards but they were quite quick!

Final question what exact IC holders did you get, because looking at the ones I have that don't have enough pins theres not a heap of space for the little inductor, I'm sure I've seen thinner versions before but thought its worth checking?

Hey everyone one needs a rant about work from time to time, I guess it would be a hobby if it never got annoyed you! :)

The place I work likes to kibosh most of my developments, buy some piece of S**t off the shelf product, discover it doesn't quite do what they wanted, then ask me for what I spec'd out 12 months ago. Obviously I initially quote say 6 to 12 months development and 12 months down the line after buying some rubbish their like, "so how long do you think this will take, a month?". I wonder if all the time wasted by middle management with no understanding of systems or programming was used on development, what kind of amazing systems would be available today!

The solar charger sounds cool, have you implemented any battery management?

Cheers,

Andy

#184 Magpie

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 11:19 PM

I just lost my post when I searched for Digikey parts. here it is again.

these are suitable.
BC337-40RL1GOSCT-ND
AE10015-ND


Are these ok for the LV317?

I would use through hole stuff for the current limiter and put it on vero board.

Can you get a cheap resistor pack somewhere like Futurlec
Use ltspice to simulate, it is way easier to use than Kicad, you will learn heaps. Play with your current limited supply. When you get it right then you can order.

heat proof tape I haven't used it yet but from what I have heard it is useful.

Final question what exact IC holders did you get, because looking at the ones I have that don't have enough pins theres not a heap of space for the little inductor, I'm sure I've seen thinner versions before but thought its worth checking?

Inductor will be fine, I have done it this way twice now.

In terms of LED load replacement in the form of resistors what would you suggest and would you suggest changing my current sense to a lower value for initial testing i.e. to produce say 300ma instead of 700ma or just do it in the firmware? If so can you suggest some component characteristics for either/both?

Doesn't really matter, even if it is 50mA. If you have the leds fused properly then you can use the leds. Dont change the sense resistor. Just change a constant in the firmware.

The solar charger sounds cool, have you implemented any battery management?

I haven't actually got a battery or a solar panel yet. This was actually my one of my other work projects, but they wont finish it now. I am going to keep going for my own benefit. Hopefully I will sell the product back to them, at vastly inflated prices of course. (Heh Heh Heh)

I am monitoring the charger current and the load current because the battery current is actually the difference in these. If you charge too slowly you cause sulphation apparently. Many systems don't measure the load current, I also need to temperature compensate.
Previously one of our installs stuffed up because the ambient temp was 45C and we fried all the batteries.
the client was ropeable, all I could say is sorry our equipment is not suitable, and withdrew the solar unit from sale.

Watch a few vids and practice your heat gun before trying to do the full board. Maybe do the electrolytics with the iron.
One guy said there is no such thing as too little solder paste.
Try to roughly follow the suggested temperature profile. Warm up slowly, dont stay more than 30-60 seconds at full temp and cool down steadily. You know it's too hot if you burn the boards.
STEFF Shield High Powered Led Driver shield.

#185 mcinnes01

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 08:31 PM

Hi, I have got most things together in an order now, just struggling with the LM317 1A. I can find them readily available at 1.5A but not 1A. Is it both a current and voltage limiter I will be making or just current or just voltage? I will be using the 5v 1A wall wart for testing. I have LTSpice, I've looked at it a few times but never really got the gist of it, although since playing around in KiCad for a while I think I have a least a foundation understanding of electronics now, just not a very broad or detailed knowledge. I will have a play on LTSpice and see how far I get. Cheers, Andy

#186 Magpie

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 11:43 PM

1.5 amp is fine. any adjustable voltage reg is fine LT1117 is not doubt more expensive but they work in the same way. the transistor just needs to have enough current / power capability to handle the loads. attached is an LTSpice schematic. R2 sets the max current and R3/R4 set the output voltage. It will be a nice clean voltage coming in, from the regulator. I suggest R2 to be say 10 ohms to test the boards for shorts and then 1 ohm to protect the leds while developing/testing the code. Maybe a switch to switch one of the resistors in. Play around with R2 and R4 and RL and see what changes. You need a larger voltage on the wall wart for this because the current limiter and Vreg both use significant voltage. Once you are out of developement phase, you can go back to your 5V wall warts. Assuming your boards pass the test.

Attached Files


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#187 Magpie

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 10:14 PM

Hi Just a bit of an update. I got my Steff4 boards back which use a similar design to yours. And guess what, no big mistakes. Thats a relief after what happened in the last version. They didn't print my silkscreen though. I have written some code that works for them but came up against some weirdness that took my a while to sort out. Basically we have changed the topology from my original design. Now we are measuring Fet current instead of load current. Looking at the circuit, The Fet current + the Diode current = the load current. At high duty cycle these will be close but at low duty cycle driving into a potential short circuit these will be way off. So we have to adjust for it in software. We know the Rail voltage and the Led load and the Fet current so we can work out the rest, and adjust accordingly. The only thing is that it wont be super accurate or super linear, unless you do some specific calibration and create a map. This circuit would not be good for colour balancing. This is a bit of a shame as one of the selling points of the 5940 was its accuracy, but really the Leds aren't that accurate anyway. When you want I can send some code. I still want to refine it for load short circuit detection. My C code looks like desktop code, it is not optimised yet at all. I wont optimise unless I have to. Almost no macros and passing everything on the stack. C can be so annoying, remember to cast (INT32) each operand up before any multiplication or division, it gets me every time.
STEFF Shield High Powered Led Driver shield.

#188 mcinnes01

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 10:15 PM

Hi Magpie,

Sorry for being out of touch for a while, I've been away for christmas, speaking of which how was yours?

I've had some interesting turns with my house purchase, the valuation came back and was £20k less than a survey done 3 months ago. And I thought this house buying stuff was straight forward and frequently exadurated! Oh well...

Any way back on to the project, I've nearly finished my order and have been playing with your current limiter...

Am I right in saying if I check the voltage at the RL resistor it should be around 5v?

Should I test anywhere else and what should the Ma be? If I test just below the RL resistor I get 51ma and 5.04v.

I changed R3 to 715ohm and left RL as 100ohm and R2 as 10ohm.

I have a couple of parts that have increased in price or gone out of stock, any alternatives you could suggest?

The indutors have gone up 10p but obviously the footprint is important.
The resistors R25-R27 have doubled in price.
These capaictors which are quite prolifically used are out of stock now. Are these ok?

 

Are these ok for the fuses with these holders?

I've got bits of soldering pieces arriving from china in dribs and drabs so hopefully with the rest of this week I have off I can get my parts ordered and start soldering next week. I've also been playing around with my tlc5940 protoboard, I still have a few bits to finish off on it and test in the mean time.

I would be interested in seeing your test code so I can familiarise myself, I haven't done too much C so I need to refresh myself.

Hows the solar charge coming along?

Andy



#189 Magpie

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 11:41 AM

Hi Andy We are just having the hottest day in Hobart for around 40 years, 41.6C. I am sitting with a wet cloth on my head trying to cool down. Did you buy the house? If you did I hope you have a dedicated Aquarium room. the voltage across RL should be 5volts (+/- say 5%) at low currents ( high load resistance) and up till the current limiter kicks in. The Attiny is happy with 3.3v up to 5.5 volts and 5.04 volts sounds just right. You need two current settings very low and normal. Use say 30mA to test for shorts and then say 100mA to see if the led works and then you can probably discard the current limiter for that board.

Cant get some of the links for digikey. the 0.1uf are ok.

goto go sorry back in a few days.


STEFF Shield High Powered Led Driver shield.

#190 mcinnes01

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 01:23 PM

WOW 41.6! I need to move!

 

The variation over litterally the last month I have seen in the weather (at both ends of the country) have been between drizzle and torential rain. Not a single day without rain.

 

The house is at the interesting point of having the valuation reviewed by the surveyors area manager, after that who knows, I may be able to negotiate or I may have to walk away, I hoping not the latter as I have to be out of my house by the end of Feb! :o My land lady is going travelling and she wants a tenant to sign a contract for 12 months.

 

Hopefully I will get the house and yes I am having a dedicated room, I'm thinking in the cellar as I can plumb it in to the mains without the worry of flooding the house. The cellar is the same size as the house which is awesome, it has like 4 rooms in the cellar alone! I'm hoping having a header tank that will be heated and RO filtered water will feed it and then a few dosing pumps to control other water variables like ph etc.

 

Played around a little more.

 

RL 169/ R2 10 = 5.0515v @ 29.9ma

RL 50/ R2 1 = 5.0505v @ 101ma

 

The RL resistors are 50ohm 3W and 169ohm 0.4W

 

I've sent my order now so hopefully should get everything soon. :D  I've attached a copy of the order if there is anything you spot I can add it on or take it off.

 

At least the power supply is something I can play with and test before I start on my boards.

 

Any way thanks again for all the help and have a good couple of days away.

 

Andy

Attached Files



#191 mcinnes01

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 12:58 AM

I have a box full of components! :D And a VAT bill :unsure:

 

Hows things?

 

I am still waiting on a few bits and bobs for soldering (i.e the solder paste) got flux, but in the meantime to get myself back in to soldering I am going to put together the power supply and test it works.

 

When you get a minute do you mind sending me your C code for the attinys?

 

Many thanks,

 

Andy



#192 Magpie

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 12:57 PM

Heres the project files for steff4.

 

You need Atmel studio 6 to compile it.

 

A few things to do to modify it to your purposes.

The main file is Steff4.c

the others are mainly defines and historical. they dont need changing.

 

Set the fuses on the Attiny to what is at the top of Steff4.c in the comments.

 

Careful with the fuses you can actually brick it if you are careless, I did this once.

 

steff4 is only two channel and you have to change the code to 3 channel. 0, 1 and 2

  So create a few more defines eg. //#define PWM_OCR_REGISTER_2

  also create another section in main for channel 3 that uses the channel 3 defines.

 

You have to set the all the defines 0, 1 and 2  to be correct for your hardware, so you need the attinyX61 data sheet, your hardware should be very similar to mine.

 

ReadPWMRegister and WritePWMRegister need to be set whether you are using the positive part of the pulse as on or the negative. If you get it wrong it will turn fully on. This is where the current limiter will save you. Your led wont like 5 volts.

 

When you get that working and only then, uncomment the dimmer section for each channel in main(), also check any defines used here are correct.

 

Todo:

I have to fix the function

U16 GetLoadCurrent(S16 sensorCurrent, U16 currentPWMSetting)

to more accurately get the load current from its parameters, as I mentioned before we only measure the fet current.

Lastly I could optimise and or use interrupts, or I could neglect them, it seems to work fine without them.

 

No doubt you will have many queries about my code, hopefully you can understand it.

I am sure most embedded C people would have a nightmare about the lack of efficiency if they saw it.

You can also run stuff in the simulator, although you have to break and then change variable values to get into some of the code sections.

 

 

 

Attached Files


STEFF Shield High Powered Led Driver shield.

#193 Nevyn

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 07:08 PM

I have a box full of components! :D And a VAT bill :unsure:

 

Dratted revenooorers....


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Blogging about Netduino, .NET, STM8S and STM32 and generally waffling on about life

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#194 mcinnes01

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 07:42 PM

Tell me about it, digikey aren't the most clear about the fact you're likely to get landed with additional charges on receipt of the goods but hey hum.

 

Thanks for the code Magpie, I will endvour to work it out and send you my attempt. I've got avr studio and an atmel isp mk2. Should have the last of my soldering bits in the next day or so, but in the mean time I will attempt to solder and test the power supply. Got my last few bits to do on my TLC5940 prototype and then need to design a board for that, Mark did you ever sketch a PCB for the TLC's?

 

House negotiations are not going my way, out of the £11k devaluation the bank imposed, I'm currently fitting 8 of the 11 :(. If you were hostage and I was the negotiator I would seriously encourage heroism! Although I have just found a house slightly further down the road (the better end of the road) that has an asking price £20k less so maybe I will change my mind.

 

Some of the components are tiny, I hope SMD reflow with a hot air gun is as easy as it looks on youtube! I will probably have a few questions about the orientation in terms of polarity.

 

Thanks again,

 

Andy



#195 Magpie

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 09:22 PM

For some reason we don't pay our VAT (10%) on items below $1000. And buying overseas is the norm for any serious purchases.

 

 

House negotiations are not going my way, out of the £11k devaluation the bank imposed, I'm currently fitting 8 of the 11

Sorry I dont understand, but then I don't know much about buying houses. I would take care as it is such a huge purchase.

 

Get some reflow practice on the hardier components first,

If you want a challenge try DFN with a thermal pad and no solder mask between the pads. That's what I did for the Solar charger. Each one took about 5 goes. Once you get the hang of it, it gets easier.

I must admit I found 2 soldering irons easiest for the big inductors.


STEFF Shield High Powered Led Driver shield.

#196 mcinnes01

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 01:02 PM

Hi Magpie,

 

Its been a while, house negotiations have finished and so I have been busy trying to move out of limbo in to my new house, I'm hoping for next weekend (as I have to move out of my current house then) but its starting to look like it could be the week after :(

 

Any way I have soldered up the current limiter, hopefully between packing and sorting out I will get some time to test it today.

 

Am I right in saying you make use the ground as a common ground from your power supply? And then do I take the current limited power from the arrow (+ve) under the RL resistor?

 

What would you recommend for the supply, you said I needed more the 5v 1amp?

 

Many thanks,

 

Andy

 

Ps once this is done I am going to start surface mounting the actual boards, is there any guidelines as when to use liquid flux and when to use solder paste?



#197 Magpie

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 04:28 AM

I guess you have noticed on the current limiter ps that the negative input is not connected to the negative output. Which is a bit unusual I suppose, but in this case it is correct. Remove RLoad from the circuit and replace it with your boards for testing. Your boards should have an input jumper with two wires, these connect to where the load resister was. If you are worried about polarity, don't, we should have reverse polarity protection, give it a try. If it is wrong the current limiter should kick in. If that fails then the fuse should blow. If the fuse doesn't blow and you have 5 volts on the input pins, then it will mean that you can start testing firmware. Initially you dont even need to insert the Attiny chip. However when you insert a chip make sure the power is off. As to what size wall wart you will need 9-12V dc, regulated or not wont matter. The current limiting psu should be ok with anything under 20v. Dont use a battery!!! use a wall wart 500mA to 1A is best. Batteries can really damage stuff and start fires if there is a short. A car battery is capable of 100s of amps whereas a wall wart will only give 1 or so amps. I have never built this circuit myself mind you, but I am sure it will work if you have the wiring right. While the circuit is switched on use your fingers to check for abnormal heat output from the different components, also if you hear or smell something strange then turn power off and check things.

 

I cant seem to get motivated to solder my own Steff4 boards yet. Maybe soon. I think I am going to do it in two steps. All the numerous hardy components first and reflow them. Then all the rest and reflow the entire board a second time. I find if you are too slow the paste dries out and isn't as sticky. Also have a quick reference board already done, so you don't spend too much time wondering which resister goes where.

 

I don't actually use the liquid flux, but I think it is good for difficult ICs. Did I give you a link to Mikes Electric Stuff? Hes a one man SMD factory.


STEFF Shield High Powered Led Driver shield.

#198 mcinnes01

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Posted 02 March 2013 - 12:50 PM

Hi Magpie,

 

I'm still on with this, just moved in to my new house so the last month or 2 have been slightly manic to say the least!

 

Hows work, life and diy lighting going for you?

 

I am about to rewire my whole house and plumb (my boiler nearly got condemed the other day) expensive stuff but it gives me the chance to try for full home automation. :)

 

I think I am going for a node zero approach with most control kept central, but with some distributed intelligence.

 

I have all my parts for the led drivers now and just need to set up a work bench in my basement to get started.

 

Will let you know how it goes.

 

Andy



#199 Magpie

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Posted 02 March 2013 - 11:39 PM

It's a shame I live on the other side of the planet, I am a sparky too so I could help with the wiring.

I have been scratching around for Electrical work and it has been a bit slow, but I have also been given a job reviewing somebodies embedded electrical project, It is quite interesting but I'm afraid my assessment is a bit damning. I didn't want this as I know how hard it is to finish projects let alone make them perfect. Anyway my client says don't hold back, they want the truth, and there have been more than a few failures in the field.

Hopefully this will lead into a replacement board, I want to go Arm m3 or maybe m4. 32 bit code yay. 8bit does get a bit annoying.

 

 

Node Zero, I'm not familiar with this term.

Sounds like you have big plans, you might have to resign your day job to implement them.

 

I made up 5 x Steff 0.4 they all work, my production techniques need refining, but each time I try a different way and learn a bit.

You have to manage it so that the solder pasted doesn't dry out before you finish placing. I think the vacuum pick up idea is good but I haven't managed to do it. RE. Mikes Electric Stuff.

All the boards work well, I have only mounted one of the version 0.4s. My lab has 3 led lights now, more than bright enough.

I added a switch to them so when they are turned off they draw just about 10uA.

 

 

 


STEFF Shield High Powered Led Driver shield.

#200 mcinnes01

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 06:50 PM

Have you got any opinions on power control for a home automation...

 

Node zero (centralised i.e. each device has its power lines running back to one point) or dispersed (devices have a control by them).

 

See http://www.superhouse.tv/

 

Do you know of any 17th edition (or similar Australian rated) way of controlling din rail relays and dimmers, can you have a netduino sitting in a consumer panel linked to the relays?

 

Or are there any other ways of doing this?

 

Many thanks,

 

Andy






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