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De-Icing, Chickens, and Artificial Sunrise


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#1 kettch

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 02:46 AM

I'm currently working on a chicken coop. Phase one is just the structure, but phase two (or as my wife calls it "You want to build what?") will involve netduinification.

 

I want to have a sunrise/sunset schedule that turns on an LED strip to make sure that they have enough light to maximize egg laying during winter months. Also on a schedule will be a motor and pulley system to open up the door at sunrise. This stuff I'm not too worried about.

 

I'm going to try for an automated feeding and watering system. I've got a couple lengths of scrap 3" Schedule-40 pipe and some connectors. One I'm going to have for food, and It'll fall down the pipe and spill out into a trough as they peck it. For the water, there's a 1 1/4" piece of PVC that comes out of the bottom with watering nipples on it.

 

The watering side of things promises to be a bit tricky. I'm worried about it freezing up during the winter. I know there's a few folks here who work with aquariums, and I was wondering if anybody has any ideas about what kind of heater might be appropriate? I suppose I could use some of the heat tape and wrap it around everything, but I wanted to minimize the amount of stuff for them to peck at. I was thinking that some kind of submersible heater that would at least keep it above freezing when the outside temperature gets down to 20 F. We don't get much lower than that more than a few days a year, so I don't want to go to a whole lot of effort for that. Ideally I'd like to find something that works of off 12 volts, but I haven't been able to find anything like that.

 

Does anybody know a heater that may work? I'm not opposed to using a standard 120V submersible heater off of a relay if there's no other options. If that's the only way, what wattage should I get?

 

Thanks



#2 TinkeringTurtle

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 02:13 PM

How much pipe? Submersible heaters, like those used in aquariums, don't work well for heating long runs of pipe unless you recirculate the water. A re-circulation pump would use more energy than the heater would though.



#3 kettch

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 08:49 PM

The pipe will hang vertically and is about 4 feet long. I was thinking that if the heater was just big enough, I could put it at the bottom and it might set up it's own convection to distribute the warmer water.



#4 TinkeringTurtle

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Posted 10 June 2014 - 09:55 PM

Not sure what region you are in, but if you're in a more severe region, you have to consider that even if you heat the pipe, the water will still probably freeze at the nipples. In mild winter regions, the age old trick has been to add molasses to the water. The sugar lowers the freezing point enough to cut it without being a detriment to your feathered friends.

 

Pardon the pun, but I'd be too chicken to run a pressurized water line out to the coop unless you have a herd of birds. I'd probably put a metal watering can/reservoir on top of a hollow cinder block with a 40W light bulb inside that heats the bottom of the water pan, controlled by a relay based on temperature thresholds. I can't speak to whether the submersible heater would cut it or not.



#5 kettch

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Posted 11 June 2014 - 03:48 AM

Not sure what region you are in, but if you're in a more severe region, you have to consider that even if you heat the pipe, the water will still probably freeze at the nipples. In mild winter regions, the age old trick has been to add molasses to the water. The sugar lowers the freezing point enough to cut it without being a detriment to your feathered friends.

 

Pardon the pun, but I'd be too chicken to run a pressurized water line out to the coop unless you have a herd of birds. I'd probably put a metal watering can/reservoir on top of a hollow cinder block with a 40W light bulb inside that heats the bottom of the water pan, controlled by a relay based on temperature thresholds. I can't speak to whether the submersible heater would cut it or not.

 

The pipe itself isn't pressurized, but yeah it would freeze if it were just a hose. The 3" pipe is just a reservoir. I think this first winter will be an experiment. I'm leaning back towards the heating wire, and wrapping that around the smaller pipe. Maybe they'll peck at it and maybe they won't, but it would at least make sure that they had some water.

 

I was hoping to find something like this, but that work with 12 volts. There are plenty of 12 volt water heater elements, but they're pretty expensive, and I don't know if I like the idea of something that hot running inside my plastic pipe.



#6 Joshk

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Posted 13 June 2014 - 04:48 PM

If you have a tall water heater you may be able to use the idea that cool water sinks and warm water rises to circulate the water at slow speed.  Out the top, cooling in the pipes, and returning to the bottom.  But personally I like the sugar water idea, because you will need to heat it substantially above freezing to keep the nipples from freezing.



#7 Strut

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Posted 20 June 2014 - 11:24 PM

I have been doing research on this exact same thing for some time. My parents run a small self-sustaining farm with about 30 chickens. First, anytime its cold enough to freeze water you'll need to supply supplemental heat to your birds also. This usually involves a couple hundred watt heat lamp. My parents position the lamp so it heats the water and the birds (lamp -> water -> birds). 12v simply won't work without massive expense. (P.S. Chickens don't lay much in cold weather, whether they have supplemental light or not)

 

I've seen some interesting solar heater setups that you may think about. The most basic is a large black water container inside a coop that is setup as part "greenhouse". The premise is that solar energy heats the water reservoir during the day, and it's heat is slowly released into the coop at night. If you have fairly mild winters the water should never freeze, and keep the coop warm(er). Insulating the coop will help greatly here. Of course their are many variations on this premise. This is the route I chose, but I went big, combining a coop and proper greenhouse into one building. I have pictures if your interested.

 

I discovered complicated feeders and waterers just aren't needed, off the shelf equipment will do the job for days without intervention, unless your just up for the challenge.

 

Auto coop doors work great, especially for keeping out the varmints at night while your gone, but I haven't figured out how to handle the occasional straggler(s) that doesn't make back in time. Many birds are content sleeping on or around the coop if they don't get a bit of coercing ;). Timed treats with an audio announcement (and training) could work well here.



#8 Joshk

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Posted 21 June 2014 - 01:10 AM

Pictures would be interesting :)  You mentioned an auto coop door but it sounds like it is on a timer.  Controlling the auto door with a pressure switch or laser beam would be neat.  If you use a clear door they will hopefully walk up to it and trigger it.

 

From what Strut said I think making them a small building would be the way to go, then you could heat the air and have all the benefits.



#9 Strut

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Posted 21 June 2014 - 03:05 AM

My auto door isn't timed, it uses a photosensor to detect dawn and dusk to match the clock of the birds and their natural behavior. Detecting the birds themselves is problematic, as their isn't much difference in a plump hen and small red fox knocking on the door ;) (of which I have a lot of here)

 

My "coop" runs on solar power for everything. I have a 100w panel and 60ah battery to run my charge controller, volt meter, thermostat controlled exhaust fan, motion detecting led spot light, several indoor led lights, and a small 200w inverter for minor 120v needs. In reality this building is a small "garden workshop"/greenhouse with a small area segregated off for a few birds to sleep in. To call this a "coop" is a bit of a stretch on my part, but that's where the initial idea spawned (all because my parents took me inquiring about guinea hens to control the ticks around the house, into meaning they should buy me a bunch of various fowl hatchlings at the local market...Thanks again, mom)

 

Let me know if you'd like more info.

Attached Files



#10 baxter

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Posted 21 June 2014 - 04:58 AM

Here is a nice automatic chicken door project from the UK,

http://www.picaxefor...ic-Chicken-Door



#11 Joshk

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Posted 21 June 2014 - 07:33 PM

Well then there's one more thing to try... use a cheap security system.  You know how the alarm at a Wal-Mart for example will flash if a small tag passes through it?  Design it so if the animal does not have this tag on his foot then the door does not open.



#12 Strut

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Posted 21 June 2014 - 07:50 PM

I like the RFID idea.

 

What happens if one of your birds does get eaten, RFID tag and all... Then door would open right up for the next course ;)



#13 Joshk

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Posted 21 June 2014 - 08:10 PM

Haha, if that happens make sure you get it on video, that would be great!



#14 Joshk

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Posted 21 June 2014 - 08:42 PM

I did a Google search and the type in Wal-Marts is called Electromagnetic Security.  Basically a metal strip that is still magnetized can be detected when it passes between the transmitter antenna and the receiver antenna.






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