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Quad.Net Quadrocopter for .NETMF


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#61 Luke Cummings

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Posted 27 January 2011 - 07:20 PM

Oh sorry I was under the impression you had been flying already.
Cheap, Fast, Good... Pick two

#62 Brandon G

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Posted 27 January 2011 - 07:22 PM

Whoa a month, i guess i need to stop procrastinating......

heres my ideas hardware wise, would like some opinions, you mentioned using a better BEC, so I have taken it off the list open for your suggestions, keeping in mind i am trying to be very modular is the reason for the component shield

Motor	6	 $6.00 	 $36.00 	http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbycity/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=5354&aff=104834
ESC	6	 $9.23 	 $55.38 	http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbycity/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=6458&Product_Name=Hobbyking_SS_Series_25-30A_ESC_%28card_programmable%29&aff=104834
Props	8	 $4.00 	 $32.00 	https://www.mikrocontroller.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=75&products_id=256&zenid=43fb24fa5fbee9bca99cea5ee6462e48
Battery	3	 $19.00 	 $57.00 	http://hobbycity.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=7634
Battery Charger	1	 $25.00 	 $25.00 	http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewitem.asp?idproduct=2055 
Frame	1	 $90.00 	 $90.00 	http://quadframe.com/html/quad002.html
RC Transmitter	1	 $60.00 	 $60.00 	http://hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=8992
ITG3200/ADXL345	1	 $65.00 	 $65.00 	http://www.sparkfun.com/products/10321
Component Shield	1	 $22.00 	 $22.00 	http://www.robotshop.ca/ghi-component-shield-v2.html
JST Sensor Cable	20	 $1.76 	 $35.20 	http://www.robotshop.ca/inex-jst3aa-sensor-cable.html


#63 Chris Seto

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Posted 27 January 2011 - 08:29 PM

Oh sorry I was under the impression you had been flying already.



I am, but not on the experimental quad. I have other quads that are not so open to experimentation...

#64 Mark H

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Posted 28 January 2011 - 03:55 AM

Whoa a month, i guess i need to stop procrastinating......

heres my ideas hardware wise, would like some opinions, you mentioned using a better BEC, so I have taken it off the list open for your suggestions, keeping in mind i am trying to be very modular is the reason for the component shield

Motor	6     $6.00      $36.00 	http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbycity/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=5354&aff=104834
ESC	6     $9.23      $55.38 	http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbycity/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=6458&Product_Name=Hobbyking_SS_Series_25-30A_ESC_%28card_programmable%29&aff=104834
Props	8     $4.00      $32.00 	https://www.mikrocontroller.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=75&products_id=256&zenid=43fb24fa5fbee9bca99cea5ee6462e48
Battery	3     $19.00      $57.00 	http://hobbycity.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=7634
Battery Charger	1     $25.00      $25.00 	http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewitem.asp?idproduct=2055 
Frame	1     $90.00      $90.00 	http://quadframe.com/html/quad002.html
RC Transmitter	1     $60.00      $60.00 	http://hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=8992
ITG3200/ADXL345	1     $65.00      $65.00 	http://www.sparkfun.com/products/10321
Component Shield	1     $22.00      $22.00 	http://www.robotshop.ca/ghi-component-shield-v2.html
JST Sensor Cable	20     $1.76      $35.20 	http://www.robotshop.ca/inex-jst3aa-sensor-cable.html


Sorry for the double post - however my other post is so off topic it's not funny, and I worried you wouldn't read to this part.

I'd like to make a few suggestions to you - I've been flying for 15 years, and worked for several years in a hobby shop for fun as a second job. These are of course just suggestions.

For your charger, get one of these: http://www.hobbyking...=7028&aff=19701
This will give you far more options for charging batteries, which is safer - and more versatile. I bought one of these for my father-in-law-to-be for christmas. This will let you charge many different types of battery and also discharge/cycle batteries as well which can be very handy.


For your transmitter, if you don't need 9 channels get one of these: http://www.hobbyking...=9041&aff=19701 with http://www.hobbyking...idProduct=9043. This is the basic 6ch tx and usb cable. The USB cable is just a SiLabs VCP. The controller can then be programmed by software on a PC. The software is rather ugly and not very good, but it works and will save you a bunch of money.

I assume you're getting 2 motors as spares? Those are pretty crappy and you in my experience you may have a dud in the 6, so that's a good idea.

ESC's - I'd suggest http://www.hobbyking...=4312&aff=19701 - I don't trust any ESC's except Turnigy Plush/Sentry honestly. I've had a couple of planes go down in a ball of smoke (or fire) because an ESC failed and caught fire - or the PCB turned to ash from the heat. I have pictures somewhere at home heh. Your motors max draw is only 14.5A, so 30A esc's are just extra weight. A Turnigy 18A plush has Fairchild HEXFET's rated to about 22A.

Battery should be fine, that will allow you 20A/motor in a quad copter. If you're building a Hexcopter you'll need a bigger battery, or higher C rating.

Frame: That looks pretty darn tacky for $90 - i'd want a lot more for my $90 than that. I've seen similar to that for about $40. Chris Seto can probably point you at a couple of basic stick type ones for cheap, i know he did a lot of research into them a couple of months back. Personally, I'd go for something like: http://www.foxtechfp...rame-p-196.html - these are plywood which is easy to repair and it's built extremely strong - they'll take some pretty big crashes :)

#65 Brandon G

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Posted 28 January 2011 - 04:06 AM

lol, guess i responded too quickly, thank you for your suggestions

#66 bill.french

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Posted 28 January 2011 - 04:22 AM

Great community we have here.


Is it kind of a weird collision between an incredibly sophisticated language (C#) and development environment (VS), used to build some of the most sophisticated, multi-national, billion-dollar systems in the world, and all the baggage that comes with that sort of thing...

... and trying to get a toy helicopter to fly!

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE keep going! Make it fly!

#67 Chris Seto

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Posted 28 January 2011 - 04:48 AM

Is it kind of a weird collision between an incredibly sophisticated language (C#) and development environment (VS), used to build some of the most sophisticated, multi-national, billion-dollar systems in the world, and all the baggage that comes with that sort of thing...

... and trying to get a toy helicopter to fly!

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE keep going! Make it fly!


It's actually not so much a toy helicopter as it is a high precision tool. Remember, these things can sell for tens of thousands and be used for everything from swarm development (RE: skynet) to aerial camera rigs.

There's a reason I don't fancy to fly full scale helicopters though, and that's because anything that flies on rotary wings is very inherently unstable and requires aggressive control to maintain stability, unlike a fixed wing aircraft that will happily fly along without any input. When you are flying an airplane, you are there to keep it flying where you think it should go. When you are flying a helicopter, you are there to keep it from crashing and destroying itself.

Control theory can be a very complicated and dangerous thing if not done properly. It is of a very high priority to make sure you have a stable software architecture and control loop if you want your autopilot to competently fly the aircraft.

Companies like Air Hogs have deluded just how complicated rotary wing aircraft are to stabilize by putting massive amounts of money into R&D for making toys that perform very well under a very limited set of circumstances. Those perform well, but they are also very limited. A quad is a high performance aircraft, not a toy.

#68 Chris Seto

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Posted 28 January 2011 - 04:59 AM

Also, about frames, Unfortunately, I don't know of any good frames offhand. there are a few very attractive ones, but they are 1) Not released yet 2) VERY expensive ($600, IIRC) If you look on the aeroquad site for darksoul racing, that's the guy who makes them. My frame is coming from a friend of mine who happens to own a very nice workshop equipped with a CNC the size of a large kitchen table. He's cutting what he can from the CNC and we are just using aluminum tubes for the arms.

#69 Mark H

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Posted 02 February 2011 - 05:44 AM

Ok well i purchased:

4x TURNIGY Sentry 25amp Speed Controller

4x Turnigy 2217 20turn 860kv 22A Outrunner

2x Woven Carbon Fiber Sheet 300x100 (2.0MM Thick)

2x Carbon Fiber Square Tube 750x10.5mm

to build a quadcopter from.

I only really need one CF sheet, however the second gives me spares lol.

#70 Brandon G

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Posted 02 February 2011 - 05:55 AM

all of them have great reviews, i may be following your lead here. frame wise i am still uncertain i might be going full on here and get one of these guys http://www.maximus-r...fr/maxicopters/

#71 Mark H

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Posted 02 February 2011 - 06:38 AM

If you want to spend that much money on a frame Brandon, why not get a Gaui? In my opinion, they look a lot more solid and are cheaper. The copters at the link you sent look like they are just a moulded stick design for 400-800euro. To start with, why not get a basic stick armed quad? If mine works out i can put up the design files for printing and then cutting the carbon.

#72 Chris Seto

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Posted 02 February 2011 - 07:21 AM

The only thing about the Gaui is that it is really *small*. No, seriously, the entire thing is like 12" across :o I want to be able to load the thing up with test gear, so that pushed the Gaui out of the ring for me, although I really do like it's design -- I just wish it were twice that size.

#73 zerov

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Posted 02 February 2011 - 01:02 PM

Hi, just found this Project. I'm also trying to control a Quadrocopter using .netmf http://code.google.c...oframework-uav/ Take a look at the codes =) Chris.

#74 Brandon G

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Posted 02 February 2011 - 07:58 PM

Hi Chris, Take a checkout of ours and tell me if you want to merge a bit where you think necessary, it looks like we're a bit further and if you have any experience writing control loops or quad code, the more help the better

#75 Brandon G

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Posted 02 February 2011 - 07:58 PM

https://code.google.com/p/quadnet/

#76 zerov

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Posted 02 February 2011 - 08:40 PM

I have already checked out you code. But I think it's to "heavy". To abstract, it may cost precious time (maybe). Also your ESC code is boilerplate, a flight ESC never go reverse. Also ramping the ESC output should be avoided, you will get a sluggish behavior. My control loop run's free, having a execution time of about ~2ms. Every ~20ms I get new data from my IMU, so I have about 18ms for other things. I will testing my code on my new frame at saturday. GC run's very less, only every ~3minutes

#77 Brandon G

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Posted 02 February 2011 - 08:51 PM

the esc code is depricated, we dont use it, the starting point is from the fez panda implementation right now. If logging is taken out ie(send in a null logger, or take out the write from the control loop) we have no GC hit at all given everything is declared up front, the telemetry data is for debugging. just because its abstract doesnt mean its heavy, it means its flexible. we have maxed out at 500hz, the config allows you to set the hz for each update whenever you want within the loop, you can set your imu, your radio and pid hz, we are still finding out what is the optimal times to run each

#78 Brandon G

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Posted 02 February 2011 - 09:21 PM

updated source to clarify usage, escs are taken out

#79 zerov

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Posted 02 February 2011 - 09:31 PM

I have taken a deeper look at the quad.net. The Controlloop is a nice idea, I think there is some optimisation potential. Is there a reason why you are using only gyros? I planed to use absolute angles (Euler angles). I get every 20ms new data from my IMU. I will modify quad.net for my needs and send you the patches on success.

#80 Brandon G

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Posted 02 February 2011 - 09:39 PM

yea we wanted to start simple, but 9dof is next step, euler is something we ae implementing at that point, i have a stub for euler and tait and would love if you could expand that.




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