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First off, even through the limited selection of modules (atm), and the annoying Erase/Flash/Deploy bug, I'm quite impressed by the Go, and from what it looks like, lot's of great stuff are happening in the future! But when that's said, I've got a few questions. My knowledge in hardware is very limited, but I think I got the basics.
1. Memory capacity
Is it possible, in any way, to expand the code- and/or memory space on the Netduino Go? Can the code space be made able for memory?
If the answer is no, does anyone have to experience/recommendations on how to do so? Currently I've got a NGo and a N+ connected through serial, where the N+ is acting like a modem/storagedevice. The connection is made through the COM-ports, is this the best method?
2. Socket expansion
Are there any plans for a module which expands the total number of sockets?
3. Power capacity
How much stuff can the NGo power? Imagine a couple of Shieldbases, a dozen of relays, Ethernet module, SD Module, touch display and some more.. That would require an external power supply, right?
4. Remote updating
Since the NGo is able to flash the Shieldbase, is it then possible to make another device flash a NGo?
5. Reset
Is it somehow possible to attach a reset wire to the NGo?
6. SPI
I've read a little about SPI, but I'm not sure if I get it. Does SPI make it possible to establish a serial-connection with multiple devices through the same three wires?
Thanks.
ntools TCP Listener (Beta) · FTP Server (Alpha) Netduino Plus Go Module · Xml Parser http://ntools.codeplex.com/
I probably can't answer all questions to your satisfaction, but since I should know some stuff about the subject I'll try
First off, even through the limited selection of modules (atm), and the annoying Erase/Flash/Deploy bug, I'm quite impressed by the Go, and from what it looks like, lot's of great stuff are happening in the future!
Thank you very much!
1. Memory capacity
Is it possible, in any way, to expand the code- and/or memory space on the Netduino Go? Can the code space be made able for memory?
Code memory: I leave that open for Chris.
Other memory: There is an SD module in the making, which makes it possible to use SD cards as storage. This can be used as memory.
2. Socket expansion
Are there any plans for a module which expands the total number of sockets?
Yes. The possibility for a Netduino Go! Hub has recently been announced. There's no date mentioned as far as I know, but it's something that will be possible in the future.
3. Power capacity
How much stuff can the NGo power? Imagine a couple of Shieldbases, a dozen of relays, Ethernet module, SD Module, touch display and some more.. That would require an external power supply, right?
It would indeed require some power. The Netduino Go! Hub design comes with a power barrel to supply power to it's modules.
4. Remote updating
Since the NGo is able to flash the Shieldbase, is it then possible to make another device flash a NGo?
Advanced topic. You may have noticed there are 10 empty holes on the mainboard. It's possible to solder JTAG pins onto it and program+debug with a JTAG debugger.
5. Reset
Is it somehow possible to attach a reset wire to the NGo?
No, but in code you could make a button module for example execute a reset. Also, an interrupt on the shieldbase will be able to do such a thing.
6. SPI
I've read a little about SPI, but I'm not sure if I get it. Does SPI make it possible to establish a serial-connection with multiple devices through the same three wires?
Wow a quick reply.. another + in my book.
Sweet news about the SD module - does that mean that the NGo in theory would be able to have gigabytes of memory, and then run huuge programs loaded with reflection?
The Hub sounds like exactly what I was hoping for!
About the reset.. does that mean, that if the NGo hangs, there is no way to reset it, except from cutting the power?
Thanks
ntools TCP Listener (Beta) · FTP Server (Alpha) Netduino Plus Go Module · Xml Parser http://ntools.codeplex.com/
1. Memory capacity
Is it possible, in any way, to expand the code- and/or memory space on the Netduino Go? Can the code space be made able for memory?
As Stefan alluded to, you can load assemblies via reflection from external storage like an SD card. They'll load into your available RAM though, so you'd want to only load the assemblies you actually needed. These are microcontroller boards and while NETMF makes them really powerful they're not really designed for huge applications.
It's not currently possible to add RAM externally (partially because you'd want a _really_ fast memory bus for that). If there's enough demand for extra RAM, we could create a higher-end Netduino Go in the future with additional on-board RAM.
3. Power capacity
How much stuff can the NGo power? Imagine a couple of Shieldbases, a dozen of relays, Ethernet module, SD Module, touch display and some more.. That would require an external power supply, right?
Netduino Go can provide up to ~500 mA of power to directly-connected modules. Each powered hub can provide additional power for downstream modules too.
4. Remote updating
Since the NGo is able to flash the Shieldbase, is it then possible to make another device flash a NGo?
We could enable reflashing over an Ethernet or Serial module in a future update. Today you'll want to use USB.
5. Reset
Is it somehow possible to attach a reset wire to the NGo?
About the reset.. does that mean, that if the NGo hangs, there is no way to reset it, except from cutting the power?
We'll be enabling the pushbutton on Netduino Go as a reset button. There is also a watchdog on the microcontroller which we could logically hook up to an external GoBus button/module/IO. Or kicked via code...lots of options to explore.
It's not currently possible to add RAM externally (partially because you'd want a _really_ fast memory bus for that). If there's enough demand for extra RAM, we could create a higher-end Netduino Go in the future with additional on-board RAM.
So that means what Stefan said ain't gonna be possible? Using SD as memory. I know that the unit will lose a lot of speed, but at some point it might be worth it.
We could enable reflashing over an Ethernet or Serial module in a future update. Today you'll want to use USB.
Okay, just thought it might could be possible. Bummer... currently I have a 320 kb application which needs to be updateable... Might be time to clean up the Dpws/System.Http/System.Xml assemblies, sigh
We'll be enabling the pushbutton on Netduino Go as a reset button. There is also a watchdog on the microcontroller which we could logically hook up to an external GoBus button/module/IO. Or kicked via code...lots of options to explore.
So what you say are, if I need to ensure a stable product, I have to find another board than the NGo, since there is NO, and not coming, ANY method to reset a hanging system?
ntools TCP Listener (Beta) · FTP Server (Alpha) Netduino Plus Go Module · Xml Parser http://ntools.codeplex.com/
So that means what Stefan said ain't gonna be possible? Using SD as memory. I know that the unit will lose a lot of speed, but at some point it might be worth it.
It's useful as memory, just not code memory. You can store resources to it, but also use it as virtual memory. Fabien, one of the guys behind Nwazet, once wrote a nice class for this: netduino.helpers.Helpers.VirtualMemory.
Okay, just thought it might could be possible. Bummer... currently I have a 320 kb application which needs to be updateable... Might be time to clean up the Dpws/System.Http/System.Xml assemblies, sigh
We may actually put some of those assemblies in the NETMF portion of the flash, which would free up more space for your application as well. There are a number of ways to work out the "in-field re-flashing" issues. Netduino Go's MCU has pretty impressive specs...let's see what capabilities we can work out.
So what you say are, if I need to ensure a stable product, I have to find another board than the NGo, since there is NO, and not coming, ANY method to reset a hanging system?
The watchdog, combined with an external IO, should work as well as a physical reset line. If the watchdog kick timer queries the IO and sees that it is asserted, it would simply not kick the watchdog and the board would reboot.
We're working on a fairly large firmware update for Netduino Go (4.2.0.3) but once it gets posted later this month I'd love to explore low-power modes, standby, watchdog capabilities, etc.
It's useful as memory, just not code memory. You can store resources to it, but also use it as virtual memory. Fabien, one of the guys behind Nwazet, once wrote a nice class for this: netduino.helpers.Helpers.VirtualMemory.
Aah okay, so I won't be able to load assemblies with reflection, and expect that to run, but datas and stuff can be placed in a VM?
Att: Chris, sounds like more great news! It seems like the most of my worries are going to be taken care of... this is indeed an interesting platform! I smell tons of potential here.
ntools TCP Listener (Beta) · FTP Server (Alpha) Netduino Plus Go Module · Xml Parser http://ntools.codeplex.com/
There are some TI Stellaris cortex based mcu's that can have added memory to it, LM3 series or what they are called.
Is this not possible with any STM32 chips?
one example of this:
https://estore.ti.co...oard-P1903.aspx
STM32F4-s have memory controller that supports external RAM and flash memories, but I think the problem is the price - IMHO it will be >$100 and there are already dozens of such ARM boards on the market. The current implementation of .NET Micro Framework cannot really fully utilize (*) the power of these boards, for any performance critical project you'd probably end up with an RTOS of some kind; and you could get the 'full' .NET Framework running on x86 board for a few bucks more...
Hi neslekkim,
To echo what CW2 said, the STM32 chips do have an external memory bus and you could in theory add on external SRAM. It's pricey compared to SDRAM, but the bigger issue is the huge number of pins required and the potential for the external RAM to have signal integrity issues. External RAM buses are designed for adding RAM next to an MCU, not necessarily over a cable.
Chris
ah, interresting.
For my use I guess sd cards, or other spi flash would go a long way, I'm thinking about fpga configuration here, where an netduino could control that part.
