Proto Board or Perf Board

Hi all,

So I wanted to start a dicussion today what do you use on your projects. Do you use standard perf board from places like radio shack or do you use proto boards like this one from sparkfun.
http://www.sparkfun.com/products/7914

I am not sure to know what the "standard perf boards" are. I suppose they are simple PCBs with a raw matrix of 100x100 mils spaced pads. If so, we call them as "mille-fori" (thousand-holes). Anyway, until now, all my Netduino projects (not so many though!) have been built on a normal bread-board. Simply because it's the fastest way to set up a circuit, and does not require the iron. We have lots of irons in lab, but when I am at home, I cannot use the iron (otherwise my wife will kill me). If I had to build a single-sample project, I would use a thousand-holes board. Cheap and versatile. For production, no doubt about the custom PCB. Hope this answer to your question. Cheers

Yea you did. this is more an oppion type question. just looking for some perspective from the community.

So I wanted to start a dicussion today what do you use on your projects. Do you use standard perf board from places like radio shack or do you use proto boards like this one from sparkfun.
http://www.sparkfun.com/products/7914

If I decide to keep something I use standard perf board.

I also use breadboard for proof of concept.

Regards,
Mark

Breadboard and then perfboard for me. I bought a protoboard when I first got a Netduino, but it's too small for any of the projects I've done. One thing that which is annoying about the Arduino form factor is that you can't put a row of 0.1" pins on a perfboard and connect your Netduino (upside down) to it easily. I appreciate that there's more benefit having the Netduino form compatible with the Arduino. I'm just moaning about the original choice of awkward pitch by the Arduino's designers.

I'm just moaning about the original choice of awkward pitch by the Arduino's designers.

This was actually a mistake made by Massimo Banzi.

One thing that which is annoying about the Arduino form factor is that you can't put a row of 0.1" pins on a perfboard and connect your Netduino (upside down) to it easily.

You could use the Offset headers to solve this problem.


Ontopic: I use breadboards and pref boards. I only use the prototype shields to hotswap a breadboard, I don't solder onto it.

This was actually a mistake made by Massimo Banzi.

Nice history lesson!

From a hardware guys point of view, you guys are really on the spot! The "breadboard" (or "proto") approach is indeed still used by professional designers. It is a wonderful way to verify and obtain "proof of concept" - that is, up to a point. Really high-speed stuff just won't get off the ground with a breadboard - you need simulators and raw gut-feel design discipline. But I digress ... You just can't beat the breadboard (or protoboard) for the stuff we all want to do. I use it all the time and it works very well. Get your idea working on a breadboard then (sorry Mario! Your wife will be angry) get the soldering iron out & wire it up on a perf board. For simple stuff I do my own PC Boards, aka PCBA's, or lay out a board for fabrification at a board house. That is very advanced "hardware" stuff that is an entire topic in itself. Hmmm. Maybe we can ... Regards.

All, Before we get off topic too much Which I like where your starting to head Bill because it kinda leads into why I asked the question in the first place. I have designed something I cant give out details yet but we are very close to launching it maybe 6 weeks or less if all goes well. The question is based on the need for me to develop a special ProtoBoard for this lets call it extended platform. or if most will end up jsut using a breadboard/Perfboard own custom PCB to interface with it. I personally am not a big fan of perfboard I find that it is cheeply made and While ProtoBoards are typicaly much nicer for components I usualy go from Breadboard to custom PCB and skip the middle step all together. Now Bill you and I are on a very similar playing field with reguard to PCB's Nothign beats a nicely made Prototype on a nice PCB. However Home etching is ok but I havent made the leap to Photo Etching. I am kinda stuck on the Sharpy and a board. And I dont like how horiable that ends up looking. and no way I can do any kind of Surfacemount two or more layers very nicely going that route. The problem is Proto Boards can get expencive to produce as the more Holes you have the PCB Fab House drill the more they can and do charge. but If i Had to choose I would rather use a nicely designed protoboard anyday. the Boards are typicaly much thicker and the Holes are nicely EING. if you dont know what EING is it is a emersion and plating that gets done to make it preserve the exposed copper from crossion and make it much easier to get a good solder joint. The problem is in the end Proto or Perf still are not a good Final solution. But from a Hobby or getting started testing out a project the perf board or Proto Board seem to be a good choice as I personally would find them a more perminate solution to a breadboard in a box.

My preferences for Arduino: I don't use bread boards at all. I prefer bare proto boards that I only add the Arduino 8 and 6 pin connectors to, and of course my components. This way I get a more solid/compact/demoable build than when using bread boards. I don't use proto boards with included components (LEDs, switches and what-not), as that extra stuff is of no use and they cost a bit more too. I don't etch at home. That simply makes no sense. I did it in the 80s, but the smell and arguable results still haunt me. I haven't quite come as far as to commercial solutions yet, but I would do either of the following for first round production designs: - Design a shield PCB with my solution, complementing any Arduino (or Netduino). Of course I would save the shield core design, so I could easily make other shields later using the same connectors etc. - Design a fully custom board with both (and just) the needed Arduino components and those of my solution, to get a cost and size optimized solution. If you consider that an Arduino is pretty much only the MCU, this is not noticeably more complicated than making a shield. It might even be simpler if not many ports are used. I would still use ATmegas with Arduino bootloader so I could directly use my Arduino code. I would order boards from one of the many PCB providers. They are remarkably inexpensive even in volumes below 100. Without a production facility surface-mounted components would be hard to use, and size might not be a major issue, so I would go for hole-mounted components to start with. That would then also work in production, if I would ever get that far. Volume production is an area that requires much more logistics and that I haven't had to deal with much (except in terms of test mounts and such), so I would surely consult an expert for that.

Without a production facility surface-mounted components would be hard to use, and size might not be a major issue, so I would go for hole-mounted components to start with. That would then also work in production, if I would ever get that far.

Volume production is an area that requires much more logistics and that I haven't had to deal with much (except in terms of test mounts and such), so I would surely consult an expert for that.

I have some experiance in the logistics of it and 99% of them prefer the surface mount design. it can be done primarly automated where a through hole requires manual labor in most cases. yes there is wave soldering however generally that is not an option most facilities have. As for my original question I think the answer is clear no one really would use a protoboard. or if so the cost is not reasonable so other ideas tend to surface. also while through hole is easier it tends to be much more expensive. a 0603 10k resistor is about $0.003 where a through hole equilivlent is well much more. same for other components like capacitors and even chips if there is a surface mount version it is likely that version is cheeper.


I will make an offer any one seeking to have boards made for a design be it you need help with layout or even schematic design I have the team and the tools to not only have the board designed but also to do any level of manufacturing from prototype to full on production. I will offer very reasonable and competative rates. I can even offer some distribution options and the shieldstore is not the only place I can help with that.

I have only started with the 'duino footprint and enjoy fabrication. I tend to build one soldered final board after a checkout on the Proto Pin and Socket matrix type board. My home brew "Shields" are made from 2 dollar perf-boards and I deal with the offset by making those pins from Macgiver's super secret weapon (unpainted paper clips)and hotglue. I like to use all the pins to give the boards a good strong connection, And I may want to add a future second stacked board. If looks and reliability count then I use SMC's and re-flow soldering in a modified toaster oven controlled by a PIC Controller (Old Project) Circuit Cellar Mag. had a pdf article on a similar oven.

Nice history lesson!

I assumed it was on purpose to make sure that getting the boards backwards was difficult